Am I Doomed Without God? Addiction, Faith, and Forgiveness.

Victoria Washington 00:00 

Start to worship the universe and we start to spiritually position ourselves as like as God, we’re actually not even accessing the the true strength and power that the real God can give us. So I would say I had an encounter. It wasn’t this spiritual awakening that I see described in the spiritual communities.  At that point I had to die to my will and receive God’s will.  

 

Judd Shaw 00:42 

I’m so glad you’re here with me.  

 

Victoria Washington 00:44 

I feel really grateful to be here too.  

 

Judd Shaw 00:46 

I have some struggling with religion that you can help me hopefully and I want to give you a little background about where religion sat with me and I’d love to hear your perspective and where religion came for you. Yeah. I grew up born into a Jewish family. My mother and stepfather who I was living with were both Jewish. My biological father also aligned with Judaism. But as I grew up around when I was younger, my mother who was adopted found out that her biological parents were Christian. And so like, just like that, she’s wearing a cross and we’re celebrating Christmas. And so no one explained that to me and no one explained the really the religious connotation that went along with any of that.  And then when I moved to New Jersey to live with my father, he had a relationship with religion where it wasn’t set in values. In other words, he would say for me, God has an understanding why I need to work on the high holidays.  

 

Victoria Washington 02:02 

 

Judd Shaw 02:02 

And so there wasn’t something to anchor into. And ultimately, I was very cynical about religion.  It was something I couldn’t see God. I couldn’t understand why some of the things that were happening in my life, where God would be in those moments and how I found so unfairness in my growing up that I couldn’t understand that a God of loving God that I would understand would allow these things to happen in my life. And ultimately though, all of these recovery programs, I get into rehab and I go into AA and NA and all of them tell me that I need to find a higher power as I understand Him, where they’ll talk about a God of my understanding. And so what I’d like to know from you is, am I doomed to return to the meth dens if I don’t find God in my life?  

 

Victoria Washington 03:17 

Well first, I always appreciate your vulnerability and I love this question because I feel like a huge part of building a relationship with God is asking these questions. And sometimes the way that the church is set up or the way that humans I should say have set up the church, it doesn’t feel safe to ask those questions or there’s no one to really disciple and answer them and walk you through the wrestling of your faith. So I just appreciate this conversation and I pray that God speaks and that we hear Him and whatever seed is planted today, that it be harvested and grown beyond this conversation.  I wouldn’t say personally that you are doomed to go back to meth. I mean, we have free will. So God, when in Genesis the Bible talks about God made us in His image, He also gave us free will because it’s important that we choose to love Him, that we choose to follow, that we choose to receive Him as the guide and the center of our life. Similar to a child, at some point, beyond five or six years old, we want them to choose to listen to us because if not, it’s just us directing them like robots and telling them where to go and that’s a loveless, lifeless relationship. So it’s beautiful how God instilled this free will in us. So I can feel you’ve made that choice to not go back to that and to choose sobriety. I’ve made that choice to choose sobriety. Now we’re, now we can talk about a bigger conversation. Within that sobriety, will you feel the everlasting love of Christ? Will you feel the boundless joy that can never be taken? Will you feel peace? That’s up for question. But will you go back to meth? I mean, your will, your choice is, no, I’m not gonna do that. And you’ll choose that every single day. But how at peace you’ll be with that choice, I think is between you and God.  

 

Judd Shaw 05:16 

Hmm. What’s your background in in all of this?  

 

Victoria Washington 05:20 

So I didn’t, I grew up around church, but I didn’t grow up in the church. So I had the type of, I had the type of family where we would like go to church on the holidays and it all felt very routine and kind of like obligation, like we should go to church, we should do this, but it wasn’t this, sit down and really teach me what it means to be in relationship with God and how to receive God and receive His commands as the ultimate love of my life. That was never, I don’t remember or recall ever having that conversation.  So once my parents got divorced, because my dad’s side was definitely more practicing Christians than my mom’s side. And so when they got divorced, my mom took us to a non-denominational church and Marianne Williamson was actually our pastor and she’s Jewish. And so I just felt like this really confusion there’s all this mixed stuff. I’m hearing this and over here, this over here, this over here. And so I just kind of was like, I’m out of here. And I did my own thing and ended up getting into a lot of different situations. Ultimately ended up really deep into new age because I felt I could finally understand something. And in new age, they tell you that you’re God and that you have all this control and this power and everything’s love and it’s light. And it’s just, it felt easy and it felt simple and it didn’t challenge me at all.  So I did that for years where I was just worshiping all different kinds of gods and finding different rituals and practices to get what I wanted and get what I needed. And then I, through sobriety, ended up finding Christ. And I remember in my relationship with God during that time asking him, I’ve heard of Jesus. I know this name and I’ve heard of his love. If he’s real, like show me him. I want to know the real thing. Cause I felt like my relationship with God was like having one hand. It was like, something was missing.  Like I got who God was, but I didn’t understand this relationship. And about four days into my sobriety, I was actually going to church at that time for the first time on my own. And the church had offered an invitation for us to do a fast. And I heard God whisper in my ear, you’re going to fast from alcohol. Now flash back to when I’m, cause at that point I’m 33. Flash back to 26. I am knee deep in a avoidant alcohol, relationship with alcoholic. I am a high functioning alcoholic, but completely avoidant to the fact that I have a problem. Hung over, over a toilet. I take some Advil, lay in bed, and God flashes this, I now know as God flashes this calendar over me and points to at age 30, you are going to give up alcohol and you are going to be sober.  And I said, sober from what? Like, I don’t do anything. Like this is my life. And I was so in rebellion that I couldn’t even see that. And I just thought it was so strange. And I was like, and what’s this voice? Like, what is this? My room’s covered in like crystals and I’m spiritual, but I’m living this secret lie of I’m struggling. I was the most spiritual I’ve ever been, but I was deeply struggling. I was not at peace and I was so, so unhealthy.  

 

Victoria Washington 08:43 

And so I ignored that obviously. And 30 comes around. I’m still drinking. I don’t drink liquor. Like I’ve given up a lot, but I’m hanging on to like the last, I don’t know if you relate. It’s like, how can I get away with this with like just organic sugar-free wine? I’m making it seem really beautiful and luxurious, but I’m still drinking every day and codependent on alcohol.  I have a stroke scare in the middle of a client call. I start to not be able to feel half of my face and my vision goes blurry. I end up calling my partner at the time and I’m like, I think something’s wrong. Like something’s up. My body is feeling really weird right now.  We go to the ER. He’s like, you’re having symptoms of a stroke, but everything’s coming back normal. What’s going on? And I hear immediately, you haven’t stopped drinking yet. The time is almost up. And I look over on this white board as I’m laying in the hospital and it says, you are loved. And everything started to kind of come together. And I’m seeing like, okay, this nagging isn’t going away. I pack up all my stuff from the hospital and God tells me, don’t put any of that back on. I had a nose ring, I had bracelets and stuff. You have to take all that off for MRI. So I ended up keeping that envelope. I still have it to this day. I never put any of that back on.  This was December 2020, I believe. I get all my years mixed up because in sobriety, it all starts to feel like a whole new life. So this is at the end of the year, December. So now flash forward, it’s March, I’m in church. I’m about to fast, alcohol. And I’m thinking, I’m gonna go 40 days, prove to God that I don’t have a problem, everything’s fine. And I’m gonna go back and celebrate with a French glass of wine. And day four, I wake up enraged, so angry, so full of fury. And I’m like, God, what is this? And this was me now recognizing that God was starting to stir something in me. And I realized that I’m not gonna get sober without Jesus.  So I started reading, at the time, it was Mary Magdalene’s gospel. And in the spiritual community, they love Mary Magdalene because she’s like the feminine and there’s all this work around her. So people who are really afraid of going deep with Jesus tend to usually lean towards Mary Magdalene because it’s more comfortable there. So that’s what I did. And I was like, this is great. I like the way she’s talking about Jesus. I don’t have to really, it’s all loving, this is great. And so throughout Mary Magdalene’s gospel, she keeps mentioning Jesus. I’m like, who’s Jesus? This woman loves Jesus. And she’s healed her from all kinds of things. And that’s when God showed me Christ. And I was in prayer one day in the middle of my fast and got hit with a golf size wave of love. And I couldn’t comprehend what was even happening. And I ended up giving my life to Christ.  Never looked, I can’t even taste the, I can’t even remember what alcohol tastes like. I can’t, he changed my entire mind, my tongue, my appetite. I don’t even know. I have no idea how it was supernatural that those 40 days never went back.  

 

Victoria Washington 12:04 

Flash forward now, my life looks a lot different. It’s almost three years later.  So my background is not, I study the Bible now. I lead Bible studies, I’m in ministry now, but I don’t have all these scholarships and stuff. I just have an encounter with the Lord that changed my entire life. And brought me to a state of peace that I never thought was possible. And even when I was sober, I wasn’t at peace. I thought that letting go of the alcohol would bring me peace. But with sobriety, the letting go is just the beginning of the journey. Then I wish people knew that sobriety, there is no destination. And when you give up that thing, that’s just the starting point. But sometimes after the recovery, they’re like, okay, you did the thing and it’s great to celebrate it. But as you know, it’s like now the real journey begins.  

 

Judd Shaw 12:59 

You know, many of the programs will reference a spiritual awakening. Yeah. Did you find that to be that experience? Is that what that experience was for you?  

 

Victoria Washington 13:08 

I would say it’s not a spiritual awakening as the spiritual community would describe it, but I would say it was a very tangible and real encounter with the redemptive quality of God, like God redeeming me and God really changing my mind and positioning me to start to see I am not God. I am God’s creation and God is the God of the universe, the creator of the universe in Genesis, it says that God created the universe in six states.  And so when we start to worship the universe and we start to spiritually position ourselves as God, we’re actually not even accessing the true strength and power that the real God can give us. So I would say I had an encounter, it wasn’t this spiritual awakening that I see described in the spiritual communities because at that point I had to die to my will and receive God’s will. So it felt less of like an awakening and more of like a revival.  

 

Judd Shaw 14:24 

Hmm. You know, it strikes me that what’s important also for me is to find that anchor, that God often serves as an anchor, almost like core values, to be aligned with am I moving into a good orderly direction? Am I, you know, working towards God or away from God?  And I find what’s so beautiful about your journey is that you found Jesus in your spiritual path, right? In your journey, that experience and through your life has now come to where you align with your religion, your beliefs, your values. And so I’m wondering as I embark on becoming a new dad, that oftentimes we’re born into our name and oftentimes religion and children don’t get to choose that part a lot of the times. And so I’m wondering as I’m more spiritual, how do I help this little boy, this little spirit learn important values like the Ten Commandments and have an anchor, but also be able to find his journey so that if he wants to be Jewish or Christian or not, that’s ultimately a decision that he’s going to make and not one of, you know, his parents or family tradition that he’s just born into. What are your thoughts about that? I’m really struggling with this as a parent.  

 

Victoria Washington 16:22 

I love this question. I wish more parents asked this question. It’s a really, really important question.  So, I’m going to give it from a biblical lens. We’re born in God’s image. So, let go of religion for a second. We are creations of God. So, God created us for Him and for His will. So, it’s important, I believe as a parent, to remember that your child belongs to God before He belongs to you.  And so, there’s already a, where you see your child, God sees God’s seed. There is a destiny. There is an entire journey that God is going to take Him on. And you’re going to be a part of that. But He will oversee, the Holy Spirit will move Him and guide Him in all kinds of ways. The challenging part for you right now is that I’m seeing, if you’re wrestling with your relationship with God, and you as the Father have not submitted your life to God, and you are not following His will, it creates confusion for the child because the child is going to look to you.  And how God’s order is in a marriage is God first, then your partner, then your kids. And the reason why it’s God’s first is because your wife is submitting to you and the hope is that you’re submitted to the Lord and the Lord is guiding your family. And so, that’s God’s original design, original order.  Now, of course, as man, as flesh, we have our own ideas of that. That’s uncomfortable for some people. When I hear that, I hear a sigh of relief. I hear hallelujah. For some people who are in that wrestling, they hear restriction. They hear, oh my gosh, they hear, I don’t know.  So, I think that’s, I respect your challenge. I see the challenge you’re in, and I would say right now to just pray, God, reveal yourself to me in a way that is going to draw me closer to your will. And it’s not necessarily even starting with all these complicated scriptures and stuff, but can you get to a point where you trust God above your own ways? In the Bible, it says, my ways are above your ways, meaning God’s ways, God’s order. This whole thing was God’s idea. Marriage was God’s idea. Sex was God’s idea. Children were God’s idea. So, we have to remember, if it was his idea, he’s got the way that’s going to be the best way, the truth way, the way that brings us life.  And I think sometimes, as man, as flesh, we struggle with that because we want it to be our way. And it feels like we can just be free. Let’s just all be all these different things. So, that’s step one, I think, is just building. Can you get to a place of trust of, I don’t know what that looks like. God, I hear that your will is above my will. I don’t know what that means, so reveal it to me. Start opening up a conversation with him and say, I want my heart to be open to you as I raise this child. And I want this child to be raised under your light, under your will, because that’s where he’s going to be the most protected and the most saved and the most moved on this earth in a way that’s going to be for you.  

 

Victoria Washington 19:39 

On the other end of it, when it comes to values, I didn’t have, like I said, a childhood where I was sat down and taught the 10 commandments. The only reason why I know the 10 commandments is when I got my hair done by my grandmother. I would sit down and she had 10 commandments posted on her wall, and I’d be getting my hair curled for like three hours, and I’m reading these commandments. I’m like, this sounds really hard.  How do you do that? So, I didn’t even know that was a thing until now I’m reading the Bible myself. And I’ll be honest with you, I wish, I wish my parents gave me some direction, gave me, I wish they didn’t give me such a choice, because now I know how good it is. And now I know how peaceful life is. We have to remember that God’s commandments are for us to feel at peace, and it’s for us to feel His love. His commandments create clarity in our life. So when He says, love your neighbor as yourself, that was God’s idea, because He knows that when we’re talking, when we’re in this life, this is temporary. There’s eternity that we’re going to, and we don’t want to bring resentment there. We don’t want to bring anger and things like that there. So His values, His commandments are here to discipline, protect, and restrict us in a way that’s going to actually make us more free. And look at me as an example, no one sat me down. And he still found me. So God will chase after your son, regardless of what you do. And so I think as parents, yes, it’s your role. It even says in God’s word, your role is to disciple your children. So right now it’s less about, what am I gonna tell him? And it’s about, let me get right with God right now. And let me start to understand what these commandments are so that I am in a trusting relationship and I can start to pass that down.  

 

Judd Shaw 21:44 

The first thing I, you know, it always comes to my mind as Mel Brooks in history of the world, when he comes out and he says, 15 commandments. And he drops a tablet and he goes, 10. 10. 10 commandments. And I was curious, what were those five on that other tablet that broke? That’s a mystery.  But I hadn’t thought about that, mirroring. Like anything else in parenting, you know, good parenting is good mirroring. And thank you for that perspective about how can I teach him until I get right about how I feel about it.  

 

Victoria Washington 22:21 

You want to get clear?  

 

Judd Shaw 22:22 

And then I can share those values and the belief that there is something far greater than I. And then even eventually expose him to how that may show up in Christianity, in Judaism, in Buddhism, you know, in all these different religions, but allowing him to still be anchored in the idea of God.  

 

Victoria Washington 22:49 

Yeah, and God will, this is for you too, cause you have the background in Judaism and this is why God says in his word to be equally yoked and to have a common ground with partnerships. I think also getting in a balanced state with your partner around what that is because the ideal situation is Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.  And ideally he finds Christ and that is, for me that’s the truth. So we can explore all the other things and we can explore all the other religions, but above religion is a relationship with Christ. And when you look at the reason why Christ exists, Christ is the son of God, yes. But in the beginning, you can see the rebellion. And if you’ve read the Old Testament, God was like, I’m gonna give you guys, I’m gonna bring you out of Egypt. I’m gonna save you from this. I’m gonna do this miracle through this prophet. I’m gonna do all these things. And they were like, I’m gonna build a golden calf cause I don’t really believe that you’re real or I’m gonna, you could see the rebellion. And so after that, God’s like, you know what? I’m gonna send my son, give you my spirit when he raises from the dead so that there’s something in you that prompts a response. So now we have the Holy Spirit and we didn’t have that before. And that’s what actually draws us near to God. So without the Holy Spirit, I don’t know, without Christ, there’s a veil. So Christ breaks the veil and now we have direct access to God and through the Holy Spirit. And so without that, it was, and I found this even in my own relationship with God, it was hard for me to understand who God is and actually talk with him cause I didn’t have a spirit in me to actually prompt a response in me. So even when we were at the speaking VIP, remember we did the meditation and afterwards you’re like, can you pray? I felt the Holy Spirit.  

 

Judd Shaw 24:53 

Mm.  

 

Victoria Washington 24:54 

in the room, and I knew you were gonna ask me that. After that meditation, I felt it. And I actually got a little bit nervous because I was like, I don’t want Christa to think like, you guys had my own little thought around it, but I felt the Holy Spirit was like, no, I created that response in him.  I’m after him. I want Judd to know who I am. And so that didn’t come from you. I felt that it came from God. And I was like, That’s interesting. Wow, now we’re praying together. And I know where you stand. I know you’re on your journey. And as I drove home, Judd, I’m not even kidding. I had tears in my eyes and I said, God, that’s how you move. You’re after his heart. You’re after his entire soul. And I could feel him wrestling, but you keep chasing him. And I just prayed for you in that car. I was like, keep chasing him down and keep creating that response in him. And it just made my entire day. You have no idea how much that moment impacted me as a believer who is patient with people because everybody’s on their path. And I was like, without forcing it, without preaching the gospel to you, you’re like, hey, can you pray?  

 

Judd Shaw 26:05 

Thank you.  

 

Victoria Washington 26:06 

And I was like, yeah, I was right with you. And I was like, that’s God, doing that God’s thing the way that he knows how to do it. So you’re in it. It’s happening already.  And I just keep hearing the word trust.  

 

Judd Shaw 26:19 

And here we are talking about God.  

 

Victoria Washington 26:22 

I know. It’s just…  

 

Judd Shaw 26:23 

You know, and for the listeners, we were at this event together and you led with a prayer. And it wasn’t just, you know, let’s get this going, let’s all come out of this thing successful and amen. It was really moving.  Yeah. And it was the words and felt very loving and really powerful. And I remember asking you if we could close with a prayer again.  

 

Victoria Washington 27:00 

Yeah, and Christa wanted me to open with prayer. My first question was, what’s his faith? You know, I don’t want to come in hot in the name of Jesus and then like something else is alive in this space. And so I always want to respect where everyone’s at.  And she encouraged me to just be open. And I could feel from you that you were open and that’s the undeniable love. That’s the depth of the Holy Spirit. It’s unexplainable. You can just feel it. That’s not my power. That was the Holy Spirit’s power moving through me because my entire being is submitted to him. So that means every word is breathed on. Everything I do, the first thing I do as God is this in your will. Is this where you would have me go? Is this for you or is this me wanting to do this? So I think that is a prime example of what happens when our life is really being led by 

 

Judd Shaw 27:57 

by God. And so your example, growing up, was almost like given a menu of religion. Not even a menu.  

 

Victoria Washington 28:04 

menu. I don’t know how to, there was no, it wasn’t really talked about. Right. It wasn’t really talked about. You know why? Because my, I could feel that my dad was, was wrestling with his stuff. And then my, cause my mom was raised Catholic. My dad was in a strict Christian household. And so I knew he didn’t want to put that on me. And then I think when parents don’t want to put anything on their kids, they don’t put anything. And so it’s like, what’s that balance? And then I was like, put something out there so that I can choose, but that it wasn’t presented that way.  However, like I said, I was always surrounded by church. Like I knew about it. And there was a lot of faith in my household. So my mom would, I would see her pray and my mom, even the words, my dad’s, my dad would use or my mom would use as we would thank the Lord. You know, we, it was there, but there wasn’t any discipleship, meaning I’m going to sit down and walk you through what this means. Because even after I gave my life to Christ, now, I like, I have a girlfriend now that we talk a lot. She’s, I call her my sister in Christ. I just started dating again after being single for two years. This is my first time dating as a Christian woman. So I’m saving myself for marriage and I’m, I want to be with a man who submitted to God.  And so I was talking with her. I’m like, how do we do this at this day and age? Like how’s the conversations go? All right. I like him. He doesn’t believe in God. Now what? So that’s discipleship. It’s just, you want your kids to be able to come to you and say like, Hey dad, I’m feeling really frustrated and angry cause this happened at school. And instead of giving him tips on how to, let’s say, stand up for himself, which I’m sure you will, you can say, well, God says this, and his word says to, to, before you judge, let’s pray. So I’m going to give you some tips on how to stand up for yourself, but let’s pray real quick because when your heart is open to God, you’ll be able to do something better than fight back. You’ll be able to bring more love. So that would be like a perfect example of what a conversation could look like when you’re discipling your kids.  It’s not, you know, making them go be some religious guru. Like it’s, that’s discipleship is every day. How do you live right next to God? How do you live as if Jesus is in the room with you? How do you, how do you live with his commandments at the center of your heart? There’s so many things your kid is going to go through that they’re going to have questions about and creating that safety for them to come to you. To me, that’s, that’s the best way to start to disciple and guide them.  

 

Judd Shaw 30:48 

What a great conversation and such an important one. Thank you for helping me work through this.  And I think the biggest takeaway for me is if I’m gonna teach about God to my son or help him and give him direction, I need to get right with God myself.  

 

Victoria Washington 31:09 

Yeah.  

 

Judd Shaw 31:10 

Thanks for coming on the show. I can’t thank you enough for your time and maybe we can end with a prayer.  

 

Victoria Washington 31:19 

I’m just gonna say, we’re about to pray.  

 

Judd Shaw 31:21 

Let’s do it. Let’s do it.  

 

Victoria Washington 31:24 

Oh, that’s so beautiful. And, Judd, I just, your curiosity, your openness, your vulnerability, you know, I just respect it so much. And so, yeah, I would love to end with a prayer.  Heavenly Father, I thank you for this opportunity to have this conversation with my brother, Judd, for his curiosity, for his openness, for his questions. God, you say in your word that it is not only safe to come to you, but you encourage us to come to you, not just with requests and prayers, but with questions. And in your word, there are answers, there are guidance. So God, I just pray that you lead Judd’s heart towards you. I pray that you create a response in him that brings him closer to understanding the fullness of your love and the fullness of who you are. I pray that this family that he’s about to steward, be stewarded in your name and in your will, and that those that you start to bring into his life, be examples of what Christ’s love is, and that the ways that you’re guiding him be revealed in a specific way that he can really understand. God, you built Judd’s mind. You actually knit him in his mother’s womb. So you know him better than any human on the face of this planet. You know how his mind works, how his brain works, what his heart is saying. So God, I just pray that you meet him in that specific, personal way where it’s undeniable who you are and it’s undeniable how much you love him and how much you’ve been chasing after his heart. In Jesus’ mighty, matchless name, I pray these words. Amen. Amen. Amen.  

 

Judd Shaw 33:04 

Amen.