You Got This with Nina Sossamon Pogue

Nina Sossamon Pogue: [00:00:00] I probably washed Shaquille O’Neal’s jockstrap. Then it could have been my claim to fame. I could have just stopped at that.

Judd Shaw: Welcome to Behind the Armor, where we deep dive into the heart of what matters. I’m your host, Judd Shaw, adventurer, storyteller, agent of change, and speaker on authenticity and human connection.

Judd Shaw: Join me as we explore the complexities of human connection, featuring theorists, scientists, and speakers. Our mission is simple. To inspire you to reclaim your true self and create genuine connections with others. Join me as we lay down our armor and live authentically. Hello, you beautiful people, and thanks for tuning in.

Judd Shaw: Today, we’re speaking with Nina Sassman Pogue. Nina is a sought after speaker, best selling author, and podcast host dedicated to helping individuals and companies thrive through tough times. Nina was a member of the USA Gymnastics team, Then became an award winning journalist, an Emmy award winning television news anchor.

Judd Shaw: Nina has [00:01:00] become known for her ability to take on tough challenges, manage life’s unexpected plot twists, and still reach new levels of success. Nina makes you feel like you can handle anything life throws at you, and she gives you a framework to handle anything. That gets in your way. Let’s uncover what’s behind the armor with Nina.

Judd Shaw: You and I share a love of storytelling and much of our story comes from our own experiences and how we have met challenges and adversity in some of the darkest times of our life. Nina, welcome to the show.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to be here. And yes, we do have a lot of commonalities and are You know, current path to of trying to put some goodness out in the world.

Judd Shaw: So grateful you’re here with me. Thank you. Thanks for being

Nina Sossamon Pogue: here. Thanks for having me on.

Judd Shaw: Nina, I wanted to, there’s so much parts of [00:02:00] your story and framework that are really impactful for, I know for me and for listeners, because so many of us, when we’re curled up in the corners of our garage in a fetal position, crying, need to find that one thing to just get this through.

Judd Shaw: And you remind me in those times, you got this.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I have a strong belief that we have this inner strength that’s, you know, sometimes hard to tap into, hard to find in those really difficult times, but sometimes when I’m sitting with someone who’s in one of those spaces, and I don’t, not a therapist, I’ll, you know, I’m not a professional in this space, I just become somebody that people come to, uh, I’ll often tell them, you know, it’s okay to not be okay, it’s just not okay to stay this way, like, You got to sit in the funk for a little bit, but then you got to figure out how to move forward and some of what I think is really important is taking people out of their own heads in that [00:03:00] moment and getting them to a better place.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: So even if it’s like one of my kids who are adults, um, one of their friends who’s in a bad spot and we’ll sit on the end of the dock and I’ll be like, okay. I know it all feels like crap right now, and everything seems ruined, and you don’t see a path forward, but let’s just play it forward. Like, didn’t you say you wanted to get a dog at one point?

Nina Sossamon Pogue: And you’re like, yeah, I’m like, well, when you grow up, grow up, what kind of dog would you have? And they’d say, uh, this kid, actually one in particular I’m thinking of, he’s like, I want a black lab. And, uh, I said, well, you know, what would you name it? He goes, oh, like a person’s name, like Eric. I said, well, five years from now, when you and Eric are running down the beach, this is not gonna feel like it feels right now.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Like, it’s not gonna be this. And yes, it’s all super crappy right now, and you don’t see a way out, and you’re just sad and mad and shame and all the things. Uh, but Sometimes you can get people out of their own head. That’s a lot of what I try to do with people in those tough situations. [00:04:00]

Judd Shaw: Well, let’s build in some credibility, because on this subject you have a life experience of it.

Judd Shaw: Um, I want to go back for a moment, if you would, in the period of let’s call this NENA 1. 0 in your U. S. Let’s gymnastics career. You’re a young gymnast performing at the highest levels. What’s life like for you? What does it look like to be Nina during this time before you met your first story?

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Well, I moved away from home at 13.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: So here I was this really promising young gymnast in Florida and I’ve won the state championships and all the things I could win down there. And I move away from home and move into an Olympic training center and I’m on top of the world. I mean, I’m 13 years old. They’re 13, 14, 15. Those three [00:05:00] years I make the U.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: S. team. I’m traveling the world. I get the U. S. A. sweats, you know, the cool ones. They send you a big box with all the stuff in it. And so I get the U. S. A. sweats and I’m going to Japan and Hungary and Germany. all over the world. And I’m with, you know, Mary Lou Retton and Bart Conner and all the people that you, you know, people, you remember their names now.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Uh, and I’m having an amazing experience, you know, just being a part of that world, uh, and gearing up for the 84 games. That was, it was, I was modeling bathing suits, uh, and, and sportswear and leotards. And I was just a kid, but I was really. In a really happy place in my life.

Judd Shaw: When you’re performing, I want to understand how you’re feeling emotionally.

Judd Shaw: What is your emotional wellbeing at 13, 14, competing at these highest levels, traveling all swagged up in USA. And [00:06:00] I’m sure I could appreciate that it has to be proud. I just know that when I was performing at those levels, which only occurred at a much later age, sometimes it’s also the time I felt the most lonely and disconnected.

Judd Shaw: So I was just wondering, what was going on in, at your age? How were you handling that, that life?

Nina Sossamon Pogue: You know, it was one of those times in my life when I look back now where I probably, I wasn’t, Never really alone, but that’s because you’re not alone doesn’t mean you’re not lonely. So there were always people around me.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: There were always young other athletes around me. I had my coaches around me and I had a husband and wife coach and their children who were always in the gym and a part of it. I sort of became part of their family. Um, so the, I wasn’t, I probably missed the chance to be alone. I, I think I recharge alone, but as far as the mental state of feeling lonely, I did feel like it [00:07:00] was me against the world.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: You do feel like it’s all up to you and the pressure is on you. I felt a lot of pressure having put my family in that position moving. I was the youngest of four kids to leave the house, felt a lot of pressure to succeed for my family. I felt even in my, my school, they would announce, Hey, Nina’s on ABC Wild World of Sports this weekend.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: And so I felt that this weekend I would feel that pressure. So one was proud and also was always so fearful of screwing up. Like there was a real fear because there was so much expectation. There was a real fear of screwing up and one that I never shared with anyone. You just smile and pretend you’ve got a handle on everything.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: But that fear of failure, you know, was, was heavy when you’re a kid.

Judd Shaw: And I have teenage children, and so I can really appreciate the fear that they have on some of the, what we would [00:08:00] consider now, the small things. But there are a lot to them within their own groups, and a picture or a video or a Snapchat that, you know, whatever.

Judd Shaw: And it wasn’t anything on top of like, balance beam, all the cameras, all the lights. And Nina is up there. You can’t hide. Right. And so I was wondering, how did you find ways to work through that fear? Were they healthy? Were they unhealthy? What would you say to your younger self, your 1. 0 now, in dealing with that fear as a teenager, which I think would help so many others?

Judd Shaw: I know my children.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Yeah. Uh, great question. I think. I actually have a whole chapter on this in my first book, that concept. Um, and I didn’t realize it till years later. So what I would say to my younger self was it’s all going to be [00:09:00] okay. Like it all plays out as it’s going to, uh, you only have control over so many things at the time I did work with a sports hypnosis, hypnotist.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Um, and I would do a thing with my fingers to calm myself down. I would start with my pinkies and go up to my. Thumbs and back down. I could do that even in the middle of a routine. It was not something noticeable. I could be on the beam and sort of like who it would reset me. So I had a couple of little tricks that I did to get those nerves under control.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I did some have, you know, deep breathing would help me get my nerves under control and it was more nerves. than anything else. Um, that I was managing through that people helped me through at the time. Now, what I talk about now is why I can look back now and I can see, like you said, you and I see it differently.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: It doesn’t seem so big when I was, well, we haven’t gotten there yet. But when I was in college and doing gymnastics, if you look at it, If we play it forward, um, when I no longer did gymnastics, I had a career ending injury [00:10:00] later after in, in college, uh, I was 19. And if I can take that 19 years of my life and I look at how much time I had spent in a gym, it was 75 percent of my whole life.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: So of course it felt like. Everything was ruined and everything. It was 75 percent of what I knew about life, right? And you know, like, like today, the kids have their instagrams and their twitter accounts in there or whatever accounts they call now and their tic tac accounts and stuff. They identify as the sport or whatever their passion is, music or whatever.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: They’re out there with it. Back then it was bumper sticker on my car and my sweatshirt. So When I lost that identity as a sport or when something bad would happen, say you, someone listening has a fall, it feels big because it’s all you know in life. So, 19, I lose a sport, it’s 75 percent of everything I know.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: It feels huge. When I am 50 and my kids left for college, I can look back now and I can say, oh, that was tough. [00:11:00] 28 percent of my life,

Judd Shaw: right?

Nina Sossamon Pogue: It’s not my whole life. And if I live to be 100, which I need to drink less wine and take better care of myself. But if I live to be 100, then it’s only 15%. So the math plays with us a little

Judd Shaw: bit, but, but, and we’ll get into this because It doesn’t feel that way in the moment, you

Speaker 3: know,

Judd Shaw: in those dark nights.

Judd Shaw: Wow. It doesn’t feel like to say, well, I just lost three quarters of my identity, but I know it’s going to work out for a reason, right? Tell me about the injury and what happened.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: So, well, before the injury, let me, let me, I do want to fill in the blanks for you. Cause I feel like, um, I jumped ahead too far.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: So I didn’t make the Olympic team. The first big failure, my first big dark night was training for the Olympics all this time, being, you know, on the cover of magazines as Olympic hopeful and just being very public about it, and then, uh, I blew it in the qualifying. I didn’t even make the trials that year.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I, the qualifier before the Olympic trials, there’s, [00:12:00] you know, 50 or so young gymnasts in it. Um, I bombed. I bombed and back then there was no coming back from when bad made. It’s not like system like they had now, so I don’t even make it into I fall off the bars, horrible fall, try to keep going. It’s just a mess, so I don’t even make it to the trials, and I am mortified like I think my life is over at that point.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Like I’ve wasted my whole life. I’ve never been to a high school dance. I’ve never I’ve never done anything but gymnastics, and I’m 17 years old, and I didn’t make the Olympics like. It was my whole life. Um, what now? What now? That’s my what now moment. I call them now what and my now what moments. Um, and so that was my first big reset.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Now I did regroup and, um, got past all that blame and shame and a very difficult time when you’re young and impressionable. Um, and then I got to college and was a top recruit, competed for LSU, had a great experience at LSU. Once again, happy, happy. You know, excited [00:13:00] to be there, found my people proud, all those same emotions as earlier.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Um, and then I blew out my knee my freshman year and it was career ending injury. And when that happened, you know, it just once again didn’t know who I was without the sport. Um, didn’t make all the right decisions. I always joke I would take my percocet with a shot of Jaeger and like, my wheelchair into P.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: T. It was not my healthiest decisions, but you know, I managed to muddle through and I found some good people around me. Um, and I say I graduated in booze and boys got out of college and, uh, and had some success, uh, in other areas, but losing my sport in that very public way seemed like the end of everything.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: It was so big at the time, like so many young people here. And I, Can go back and see the framework that I’ve created. Now I can go back and see how I use that to get out of it in both those situations.

Judd Shaw: It’s quite a remarkable story, and it’s not even [00:14:00] halfway over. And the importance of that is that a lot of us will hit a dark night.

Judd Shaw: But there are times where we then ask ourselves why, like, And it’s very easy to go down that pity pot, that comfortable rabbit hole of misery, because it was one thing to have fell and not made the team and lost my identity. But here I spent all that time climbing all the way back up, and it’s gonna be taken from me again, but this time permanently?

Judd Shaw: What now? And why?

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Yeah, and I can get caught in the whys, and that’s, some people do. Uh, I was not one of those people, so that’s one of the reasons I went down this path to research resilience. Uh, [00:15:00] and I didn’t realize what I was researching until I, you know, got to that word a couple years into my research.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Um, I knew I was looking at a lot of, like, stoicism, cognitive behavior therapy. Neuroscience. I was trying to figure out why some people get stuck and can’t move forward and why other people do. Why are some people more resilient? I was always determined and I would just adapt and believed I could do anything and move on to the next thing that is not without saying I didn’t throw a pity party or two.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Don’t get me wrong. There were some why moments and, you know, Why me? Um, earlier in my life, the why me’s and these first stories, I think held on a little longer later in my life. The why me’s, I just realized this is part of life. Uh, and I got to that pretty quickly. Um, and I truly think that there is some people who are wired to be a little more resilient than others.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: And I just am one of those people who could get to acceptance very quickly through the stages of grief, grief, get to acceptance and move forward. [00:16:00] So, um, My why me’s, um, just, you know, became a part of my journey that I can look back now and be thankful for. Those why me moments. I truly, um, I’m truly thankful that I have moved on and had so many other amazing experiences in my life outside of the gym.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: And some people do one thing for forever. And I certainly haven’t done that.

Judd Shaw: How do you start to scramble? And even say what’s next, like, where do you find those options in those moments?

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I didn’t find options at first. Like I said, I was, I was really in a dark place and just mad at the world and, uh, in a wheelchair and taking my Percocets with Jaeger.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I do vividly remember that, uh, and just making poor choices for a while. And then, uh, my coach, to keep my scholarship, I had to work at LSU. Uh, they don’t do that any longer, but when you were an athlete, in order to keep your scholarship, you had to work for the athletic department. [00:17:00] And, um, not being thrilled that I had blown out my name my freshman year, somehow, I ended up in the laundry room.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: So, I’m in the laundry room. Um, and I’m not talking about gymnastics laundry. I was doing basketball and football. I mean, I probably watched Shaquille O’Neal’s jockstrap. That could have been my claim to fame. I could have just stopped at that. My claim to

Judd Shaw: fame. That could

Nina Sossamon Pogue: be my first book. I washed Shaq’s jockstrap.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: But I didn’t choose to stay there and make that my claim to fame. But I worked in the laundry room and I can remember leaning and like being outside that laundry room, putting down my crutches, leaning up against the wall, waiting for the laundry to go, sitting in the sunshine and watching all the other athletes.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Um, and then I would go to practice wherever, you know, across the campus that track guys had to pass there. All the people in track. Um, the natatorium was over there. So all the swimmers would be going that way. And the gymnasts and like everybody would be passing where I was sitting and very few people would even make eye contact.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I was just not a fun person to be around. And it was a bummer. I was a [00:18:00] bummer and I was a reminder. So I was very alone and lonely at this point. I do remember that and one day in the middle of sitting there, uh, One of the academic counselors plopped down next to me, and he said, How’s it going? And I made some snipe comment and said, Fine, best ever, you know, this is, this is fun.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: And he was one of the few people who noticed and started stopping each day and chatting with me. Until I actually could tell him some things that were true. Legal, the truth, the truly things, things that were truly going on with me. And, uh, he became an impetus for change for me to help me find something else to get excited about.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: The biggest battle when you’re in a hole is trying to find something else to get excited about

Speaker 3: something

Nina Sossamon Pogue: else To that’ll take your brain in a new direction because you’ve been spending so much time going Passionately in one direction working towards something so to find something to take you in a new direction Uh, and he got me there and then you know, that’s where my That he planted the [00:19:00] seed of working in sports information and doing journalism and writing the stories of all these amazing athletes.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: And that’s where my journalism career started. Because. Now I had something else to get excited about. Now I ended up getting a degree in communications and not journalism because my grades were so bad. By that point, I was so far behind. I couldn’t even get into the J school, which is funny.

Judd Shaw: That is funny.

Judd Shaw: You know, you remind me of the beauty, the power, and the impact of authentic, vulnerable connection. Like, what would have happened had you not answered that question? The way you did.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Yeah, I, I, and if he hadn’t stopped, like all these years later, I look back and think of the pivotal people in my life, your message of connection is so important.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: One of the pieces of my four part plan, you know, my, my framework that I share is people. It is your community, your [00:20:00] ecosystem, and who’s helping and who’s hurting and how you edit those people in and out and how you do need to pull in people and create some. Um, and I think it’s important to have real meaningful connections to get you moving, move you forward.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: And part of my someone’s been through this before. Someone sees it differently than you. He obviously could see my struggle very differently from me. He was a grown man. I was a child and he could see I was sad and and would was willing to let me share like openly sadness with him, which not everybody is willing to do.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: People don’t like to be around sad people sometimes. Uh, and so. That connection was really key and throughout my life, even after big trauma and stuff later in my life, like finding a therapist who was good, who I could just say the horrible stuff that was in my head out loud to. Like, that was really a key to find the right people in my life.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Um, and I’ve edited out people through the years. Like, my first marriage didn’t work because that person was not my person. Like, I needed, I needed a different, [00:21:00] support system and a different person to be joyful with, like both, both ends of the spectrum. Um, you also need people to really celebrate your joy and to be there with you in the good times.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: And so the connection piece is really important part of how you create success after something, um, after a big down, after a big low.

Judd Shaw: You are, um, the, this, the next part of your life story is this broadcasting component, right? To you. You launched this now, career in journalism, and may I say, just like everything else you’ve done in your life, incredibly successful at it.

Judd Shaw: Award winning journalist, Emmy award winning, multiple Emmy awards. And just, you know, this is just now a new purpose, passion, love, and it’s getting you up in the morning. And now, [00:22:00] what does Nina look like in this next version? You know, for life, right? This 3. 0.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Yeah, I don’t even know if it’s I think I lost track of how many Nina 3.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: 0 4. 0. I have a lot of my release schedule is really strong. I have a very, very short release schedule. Apparently, I got I got a lot going on. Um, yeah, not even know where the release notes would be on that one. Anyway, that next version of me that comes out, uh, and it becomes this journalist and I love it.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I love being a journalist. I love doing sport. Now, first I started in sports and I did very quickly realize I didn’t love that. They win, they lose, here’s the score. Like, I wanted more to it than that. So I got really into telling the stories of the athletes. And then I switched over and became, um, a political reporter for a while and then got into general assignment reporting and did a little bit of everything.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Uh, so I, I had an opportunity to really see the world around me in a new way, [00:23:00] learn new things every day. Like one day I’d be covering like riding an elephant down the interstate because the circus is in town and the next day I’d be at a shooting or a stabbing and learning about crime in that community.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: It was just really a constant. Um, and I just loved it and I thrived in that setting and I was willing to do anything. My first job. I don’t want people think I just jumped in there. My first job. I pulled the cords in the studio. I ran the teleprompter and got screamed out all the time by the anchors because I was either too fast or too slow or to something.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Um, like I did. And I, I logged. I spent six months in a closet at a TV station, literally in a giant archive closet logging in. This is when Everything was being put online. Old tapes. Like big giant tapes, sitting and watching, red car accident, red car corner of something and something, like typing in all the old stuff into the new computer system.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I did that for six months, so I proved myself to get an opportunity in a newsroom, and then once I got in there, I [00:24:00] fell in love with it. And then I got to do all the really cool stuff and be a part of that world. Um, and then I, I was a reporter, then I became an anchor, and that was kind of the goal. Now I will say early on, I didn’t want to be an anchor.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I was going to be the next Christiane Amanpour and I was going to travel around the world and speak five languages, you know, be that person. I was truly a journalist, you know, fair, balanced and accurate. But uh, I got tired of being really poor. So when the anchor job came along, I was like, Oh, I can do that.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I got nice hair and can doll this up. I got this giant thing. So I really went down that road and leaned into it and I loved anchoring too. It’s a different type of success. The Nina during those years, during the. The on camera, like as a reporter and then as a news anchor, I love that sense of, um, I got the opportunity to tell stories.

Speaker 3: All

Nina Sossamon Pogue: day, every day and connect people to the community around them. And I got to choose the language to tell that story. [00:25:00] Um, and I got to use words that were compassionate and kind. Uh, and it didn’t have to be as ugly as the world around us was. It was still fair, balanced and accurate. But it was, um, Back then, uh, it was very fair, balanced and accurate.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: And I got to be a through point to kind of take the ugliness and you still need to know what’s going on, but you really didn’t need it right in your face every night. And so I became very popular, uh, and won a lot of journalism awards and anchoring awards for the way in which I told stories and shared information for the world with the world in a really, I guess, kind way.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I like to look at it as kind.

Judd Shaw: Some cosmic bricks though, come down and for whatever reason, Again, life decides to throw a massive curveball your way, and you’re asking what’s next [00:26:00] again. What happened?

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Well, I was a journalist for a long time and was very popular. As I mentioned, you know, big fish, little pond.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: It’s Charleston, South Carolina. Um, and I won one day. It was a Thursday. I won Charleston’s favorite news anchor for the seventh year in a row. So this isn’t the big one you’re talking about. But then for the seventh year in a row, I went Charleston’s favorite news anchor. I’d won lots of awards. And then on a Friday, That was a Thursday.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Friday I got called into the news director’s office and he said, We are, and I think he’s going to give me like a bonus or something. And he says, We are releasing you from your contract without cause. And so world rocked. I was being let go in a massive layoff. I just was like, didn’t realize it was me.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Like, I thought I was pretty untouchable at this point. Uh, so I get let go and then I, you know, that’s one of my big down moments. What am I going to do with myself? And I pick myself back up and go to another TV station, have big success then. That’s when I won the, the, uh, Best newscaster in the Southeast Emmy, which I’m super [00:27:00] proud of because that was after that firing, they went younger and blonder.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: And I proved so I had a little, I’m going to come back at you with this thing.

Judd Shaw: Um, so I want to catch that from that 1 moment because it’s really important is that here again to your point and to the books and your framework, which, you know, we’re going to talk about, which is. This thing could have been really bad, but the next springboard puts you on a, uh, essentially a bigger stage.

Judd Shaw: You’ve got a bigger recognition, a bigger award because of that let go.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Yeah. And so I’m in, so I’m in a really good space now. I’m kind of in my zone. I’ve won this award and I’m top of my game. I’ve got, I’m remarried. I’ve got three little kids. I’m in a really good place. Um, and then I was I went from being reporting the news to being in the news, excuse me, a horrific accident that sometimes I’ll talk about and it’s a little triggery, so I won’t share the whole thing out in front of your audience unless you would like me to.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I’ve shared it from the stage [00:28:00] before. It’s sort of a give or take whether or not you want to go down that road. Um, but I was involved in an accident that had me really questioning and, I had this one my front lawn and I became part of the news that had me really questioning this was my why me moment.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Like, how come I had all this success and gotten through all these things? And now you’ve put me in this place with so much sadness that I was just in a dark place. And I wanted to end my life. Like I remember standing in front of a mirror with a razor. I’d been off the air for a few weeks. I remember standing in front of a mirror with a razor thinking if I just slice up my face I won’t be pretty and they won’t want me.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: You know, to come back and do this. And then I thought maybe the whole world would just be better without me, my kids. I was just such in a dark place and so unhappy and saw no way that I could ever be happy again. I just couldn’t see any happiness in the future at this point. And so I was, I was in a very scary dark place for a while.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: And [00:29:00] that’s when, you know, I had to get a really good therapist and reset expectations on what life was going to look like. Because when something big happens, and this was a. Big traumatic experience. the me before. I just wanted to go back. I want to be everybody loves Nina. I want to go back and be that person like Charleston’s favorite news anchor, former, you know, world class athlete.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Like I wanted to be like great mom. I wanted to be that person. I didn’t want to be this new person that now had this new label and this new way in which people looked at me. I just didn’t want to be that person in the future, and I wanted to go backwards, and I felt very stuck in that moment. Um, which is part of what my framework that I offer now, is it helps people get forward out of that moment.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Like, how do you move forward when everything ahead of you just looks bleak?

Judd Shaw: Nina, I appreciate so much your, your vulnerability, and your candor, and, and, Um, I don’t need for theatrics to get into the story and I certainly [00:30:00] don’t want to trigger you, but I would love to get a little behind the armor on it because this is the moment.

Judd Shaw: So if it wasn’t falling off, knocking down the opportunity from the U. S. Olympic team, if it wasn’t an injury that took away the sport and the identity altogether, if it wasn’t going to be this firing, I All of these things led to these other moments, yes, but then there are that time, that time when I was curled up on my garage floor and thought to myself, like, maybe that’s the way, like, maybe that’s just the fucking way, like, and I want to know, You know, did you develop the framework [00:31:00] or this award winning book, This Is Not The End, which came, you know, which came first?

Judd Shaw: I’m just curious.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Well, oh, the book came 15 years after that big, the big this. What I call my big this. Yeah. And that

Judd Shaw: big this led to that framework.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Yes. Well, at that point in my life, I went back and looked at all of these times I’ve gotten through it and what, what was the commonality? And then I reached researched companies who’d gone through dire straights and got out and individuals who’d had major, like become paralyzed and people who had lost children.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Like, how did they all get through it? And I found the commonalities. And so the framework is those commonalities, but yeah, the book came much later.

Judd Shaw: You tap into your journalism experience, right? You’re, you know, uh, and your ability to tell that story. And like, it sounds like similar to me, what I did was after I had my darkest [00:32:00] moment and climbed out of it and then came on the other side of the healing, I thought to myself, could I reverse engineer my own healing to figure out what I did?

Judd Shaw: So that I could help others similarly situated. I’m not a therapist. If my story, my framework helps you, I hope so. Because it was the one thing that helped me. And that was the connection cure. Cure being consciously aware that we’re masked up. U for understanding the reasons why we’re not showing up as our authentic self.

Judd Shaw: The next one, R for renewing the connection first with yourself and then with others. And then E for expanding, which is sending out and creating more connections, even with yourself and with others and watching how that ripple effect can change the world. I’m so interested, what’s the framework behind how Nina [00:33:00] climbed out and reverse engineered that healing?

Judd Shaw: What’s that look like?

Nina Sossamon Pogue: And that’s a perfect way to put it. I have very similar path. I reverse engineered it and I wanted to be able to share it with others. I had become this go to person that people came to to get help. And so I wanted to be able to do more than just one on one at the end of my dock or in some meeting room or over a beer, help people.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: So my framework, I call it this frame, this is. resilience framework, and the word this I use throughout it, and that’s why my book is This Is Not The End. And I think we all have this is in life. It gives you the opportunity to put your this into the space. Um, and You know, it’s for highs and lows. Look, you look at these young kids now who win the Olympics and they’re like, this is the best day of your life.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: And they, it gives them nowhere to go afterwards. They need to throw in the word yet, you know, best thing yet. Um, so the high is kind of have a now what moment to along with the lows. But as far as the framework to get out of the lows and get back to that high, um, on the timeline of your life, [00:34:00] um, you know, Mine is four parts, and it’s my four tips.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: People always ask me for tips, so I use the acronym TIPS for this framework. Very simple to remember. Um, and it’s T I P S, and it’s putting it in a timeline, isolating, pulling the right people, and telling your story. So the timeline piece is if you draw a line on a piece of paper from zero to 100, zero to 100, you put your little 10 year marks in between it.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80. And, You can put whatever you’re going through right now, anyone listening, you can put whatever you’re going through right now as a dot on that timeline somewhere, in your big, giant, messy, marvelous life, that’s a dot on that timeline somewhere. Um, and so you can see. There’s all of you before that and then there’s going to be all of you after that, but you’re right here and the concept of the big empty line ahead, [00:35:00] that big blank timeline is pretty magical because you could put anything there.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I joke sometimes, like, I’m in my fifties now. I’m like, I could go off the rails tomorrow. I could get off of this jet and go, I am just so done with everything and all of these people. I’m done peopling. I’m going to sell my house and buy a Harley. I’m going to get a face tat, dye my hair purple and just take off, you know, I mean, I could totally go off the rails.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Because it’s my life. I’m in more control of what’s ahead of my timeline than anybody else and you are too. So the timeline piece is this concept of the timeline and where is it in your big giant messy life? Because it’s just part of it. It’s not your whole life. There’s a big blank space ahead. You can’t go back.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: And then the next part is isolate. So if you draw that. Wait, can I

Judd Shaw: mention one thing on the timeline? Yeah. Because my, my creative brain was like shooting off. Because your book is spec, both books are spec accurate. You should have a bookmark, maybe make a bookmark, right? And it’d be a ruler [00:36:00] with the, with the little marks and the, and the bookmark could say, this is your life.

Judd Shaw: How many of this, you know, how many of this is you have had, or where are you in this? That’s so

Nina Sossamon Pogue: good. I love it.

Judd Shaw: You know, on the other side, your, your logo or something like that’s so great. Like I would, I love that bookmark and it’s a daily reminder of reading the book, like this is your life it says.

Judd Shaw: Like how many of this are you? Where are you? Yeah. I love that.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Yeah. So I, I do that on the, in my keynote. I do this big timeline thinking. I love that. Um, that is great. I’m going to steal that. That’s a wonderful. I’ll send you one. Please. I’d love that. Um, so that the timeline is the first piece. Like, where are you on your big, giant, messy timeline?

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Where does it fit in? And you know, when I, when I work with groups, sometimes I do this like above the line, all the good stuff, like your resume goes above the line and then under the line, I have them put all their, this is the tough stuff they’ve been through. I call that your reverse resume. That’s actually, What builds who you really are as opposed to the stuff above the line and you can kind of see it like go up [00:37:00] and down like it as life builds through so the timeline piece is the first part and then isolate is if you now it’s all one piece of paper.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Take that timeline and draw it wherever you at dot is draw a line in front of it and behind it. All the way through your paper, because that’s where you are right now. You can’t go back if you live, the people who live, you know, and you can’t go forward. You have to isolate just where you are right now.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Any good therapist will tell you that if you’re living in the wish I’d have done this, wish things were different, should have done this, that’s where depression lives. You know, and if you’re living in the I’m so worried about that, what if it’s all ruined, what ifs in the future, that’s where anxiety lives.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: So really, all we have is the, the right now piece, like you and me right now in this connection. Um, so the before is depression and the after is anxiety. So this magical isolated piece is what you have right now and that’s what you can actually take action on. That’s the only thing you can control is the right now.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: So that’s the [00:38:00] isolate. And then I draw a circle around it, same piece of paper. Draw a circle around that dot you put on there, on the timeline. And um, figure out, Who’s in this with you? Because when something happens, you feel like you’re in that circle all by yourself. But, someone’s been through it before.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Someone’s seen it differently. Like we were talking about, like, this is your whole world. You are definitely part three of my, of my, uh, tips. So that people please, like, who do you need to bring in? Who do you need to kick out of your circle? Who’s in this journey with you? You are the main character in this journey.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Who’s in there? And that’s the people in the community and your ecosystem that needs to be built for you to have success. Um, that’s the people part.

Judd Shaw: I call you, I call it your rat pack.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I love it. Yes, your

Judd Shaw: rat pack.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I call it my crew with a K because I went to LSU and it’s all Mardi Gras for me. It’s my crew.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Who’s your crew? So, that’s the people piece. That’s the circle around it. And then on that same piece of paper or wherever you want to look at it, write this is with a big blank after it because the fourth [00:39:00] tip is the S and tips. It’s story. And what’s the story that this is going to be the story that it is the words in our head.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: And we can take our mouth and that becomes our story. And we got to work on the words that are in our head, fix that language in our head so it comes out of our mouth in a way in which it can be helpful and not have all of this self sabotage, the over generalization and the catastrophizing. Like, this always happens.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: This is ruined, like all those, those bad things that happened in our head. That language needs to change. Part of what I talk about is you wouldn’t talk to a kid that way. You know, you certainly need to talk to yourself more like a child. Things aren’t ruined. We don’t jump to conclusions like that. They haven’t texted me back in 10 minutes.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: They must hate me. Like, no, like whatever it is like that. We all do that to us, to ourselves. It’s all that self sabotaging, um, exaggerating. I have 5 million things to do. Do you really, you really have 5 million things to do, you know? Um, and, and that, uh, our ability to work on the language in our head, um, [00:40:00] and to make the language in our head, what comes out of our mouth and that becomes our story and my most difficult times.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: You know, I, I’m guilty as everybody else for doing this language. I thought everything was ruined and that I would never be happy again. That language, never, is really big. Um, so. Yeah, it’s um, the story piece is really key. I call it your ripple effect because you say it out loud and then it’s what people say about you and it becomes your story.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: If you say, if you get fired and you say, this sucks and they’ll never going to make it without me and I hate these people and like all that, that’s becomes your story of being let go. Or if you say, wow, didn’t see that coming, I’m going to have to find something else. Do you know anybody who’s hiring and good luck to everybody who’s left there, then that becomes your story.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: It’s just that language. So the language piece is really good. That’s the story. So the tips, you can do them and you can look at them, those four and see which piece might be missing.

Judd Shaw: [00:41:00] It’s beautiful. It’s creative. It’s clever. It’s easy to remember. Um, you know, the, the story piece, I love so much because similarly, just like expand and the connection cure, I always say that ripple effect is, it’s hard to measure, but it’s exponential in impact.

Judd Shaw: Absolutely exists. And I also, you know, as a storyteller, uh, love to say we all have a story. What’s your story? You know, own your story. Yes. And, and there’s, and there’s, and there’s ownership, right? And there’s agency in owning your story. And and and there’s power to that.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Yeah. And I think you had probably the same experience I had by going down this journey and reverse engineering writing.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: My first book was cathartic to put it all together and do that homework and figure out what was actually [00:42:00] had been going on with me at the time. The levels of PTSD and the cognitive behavior therapy, the chemicals in my brain, the amount of cortisol and adrenaline and norepinephrine that the rewiring that had gone on through the traumatic times in my life.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Um, It really was healthy to go back and do that and that telling that story became a healthy thing for me to do, like so many people, like if it’s all just in your head, actually figuring out some words to tell your story is very, very healing.

Judd Shaw: Yes, I agree. And I had a, I had a doctor once diagnosed me with borderline personality disorder.

Judd Shaw: That’s real. And I, yeah, and I had to do dialectical behavioral therapy at CBT and I went on there just to rewire and calm my nervous system and be able to begin to regulate and show up in the world. And, and, and so, you know, what we’re talking about that, that switch, that [00:43:00] climb out of that moment, it feels like end of the world, but there’s so much more.

Judd Shaw: Light in front of you.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Yeah. And that feels like the end of the world is so real, right? And when you get on the other side of it, you look back and go, holy crap. Like that felt. Really like the end like it truly felt like the end to me I was I mean, I wouldn’t have seen my kids grow up I wouldn’t have seen him go to high school or go off to college I wouldn’t like my daughter’s in New York and I fly up there to visit her like I wouldn’t have done any of this I just I would have been there to support them I wouldn’t have written this book and I will tell you that Pay it forward and have it come back to you.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: The I wrote the book in 2019, the first book, and you keep saying both. My books are good. My second book kind of sucks, but the first one’s really good. I’m really proud of it. The second one’s too long. I use too many words. It’s hard to write a short book, but the first one’s really good. [00:44:00]

Judd Shaw: Well, that’s because you wanted both.

Judd Shaw: Yes, exactly.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: So the second one, the name of the second book is, but I want both. Um, but the first book is, is so good and it’s hard to write a short book. And I wrote it for people in the middle of a trauma, in the middle of going through a big this. And I mean, it starts out with, well, this is a crappy way to meet you.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Like that’s the beginning, first line of the book. Um, but to have that just a couple of people early on in 2019, when I wrote it, complete stranger, shoot me a note and say, Hey, for the first time. I didn’t want to take my own life today. Thank you. I thought I can tap out right now. Like I made a difference on the planet in that one person.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: And that’s all it takes to know that, you know, it was it was worth it for the time and energy for me to reverse engineer and help. And it has helped a lot. Of people through the years. Um, my daughter will say like my, when she was in college, she would do chapter six on her friend. She’s like, my friends all think that life is over ’cause they got drunk at a party or they’re [00:45:00] failing a class, or like, they think life is over and they’re so dramatic.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: She’s like, I do chapter six on people every day, mom. You know? So my chapter six thinking, I, she calls it. Yeah.

Judd Shaw: I love that. It reminds me of the chapter five in the sense of how they refer to it in the aa, uh, you know how it works. Yeah. Um. So, I, I disagree on your second book, but we can agree to disagree.

Judd Shaw: It could be, it just

Nina Sossamon Pogue: needs work. I need to take it, I need to run back through it and make it better.

Judd Shaw: I don’t want it. And we, we share actually something in common about that. So, I wrote a children’s picture book series called Sterling the Night. Um, about young Sterling who, the book series helps children socially and emotionally development.

Judd Shaw: Thank you for your time. develop skills that they’ll need in life going into the adults. And for those adults like myself, it’s lessons you could always relearn. Um, we share the same publisher. Morgan James.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Oh, that’s cool. I love working with [00:46:00] them.

Judd Shaw: Yes, right. Uh, they made me

Nina Sossamon Pogue: take all the curse words out of my book though, which was very, it was like a challenge that when I wrote it, it had, I was very much me and I, I worked in a newsroom.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I curse like a sailor, but I had to be fair. It was hard to come up with other language, but it was a wonderful exercise in trying to do that. But I loved Morgan James. I think that they’re a great group to work with.

Judd Shaw: It’s funny now, every book that I see coming out, every. covers like F this or your life is F, F you, anybody, you know, with asterisks, you also have a podcast.

Judd Shaw: Like I do your podcast funnily says, you know, This podcast sucks. No,

Nina Sossamon Pogue: it’s it does at times, but it’s called this seriously. I won’t, I won’t lie. I won’t lie a dozen times. It’s not always great, but

Judd Shaw: seriously sucks

Nina Sossamon Pogue: the right [00:47:00] podcast when life goes seriously wrong. So it’s this seriously sucks. Um, yeah, this seriously sucks.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: And one thing that’s, Really been. You know, I use it for research for my speaking and for my work. I get to meet some amazing people and their stories become stories I can share. But everybody on my podcast has to be 10 years past. this they went through. So I say you speak from your scars, not your wounds.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: And I won’t even let anybody be on unless they’re 10 years past it. And I’ve had, um, uh, Joe Delegrave, who’s a pair of three time Paralympian, uh, and now he’s the head coach for the Paralympic rugby team. But he was a college athlete and became paralyzed. He 10 years past, like to tell, how do you get through that?

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Like, what an amazing dude. I just, I’m like, And he’s as tall as I am seated in his chair. He’s like tatted up and jacked. And like, how do you get, how do you do that? So his story, people like that, people who’ve lost children, people who’ve been incarcerated or [00:48:00] addicts and, you know, all sorts of people who have been 10 years past, um, whatever their big, this is, but yes, this seriously sucks.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I love that.

Judd Shaw: That’s a great experience. Um, so I’ll end with this. And I asked all my guests because similarly situated, really phenomenally impactful people who are doing just so much good in the world beyond being a mom and an author and a podcast host and a framework creator and just getting through our lives ourselves through the challenges of every day.

Judd Shaw: How does Nina most authentically connect?

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I, this is going to sound strange to some people. Um, you know, I like, I live near the beach, so I’ll walk on the beach and I build sandcastles and do things. But honestly, I [00:49:00] connect with myself the most when I’m in the gym. I love being in the gym. I love just pushing.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I like being with Nina with my headphones on in the gym and working out and seeing how hard I can go and how heavy I can go. And I like that time for me. It is self love for me. I’ve always, I’ve been an athlete. So it’s something I enjoy. And like, even the smell of the gym, I like all the things most people hate.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I just, you know, That is my time for me. I connect most. I’m kind to myself in the gym. I’m also hard on myself in the gym. I think through things in the gym, but that’s really my time for me. I did distance cycling for a while. I used to say my time on the bike was where I really connected with myself the most.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: I’m not doing as much of that, but mine’s usually through physical activity where it’s just me and my body and my brain. And that’s where I reset alone. I’m not as much as I love connecting. You’re great. I love the energy. I energize around people. But when I get in touch with myself, it’s me [00:50:00] alone, usually sweating

Judd Shaw: Nina.

Judd Shaw: I love that. You are so embracing all of your energy, all of your both sides of your energies, your whole heartedness, you are A beautiful person inside and out. And thank you for sharing your time with me today. I could not be more grateful. This moment was a moment I won’t forget on my ruler. Thank you so much for being on the show.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Excellent. Thank you. Thank you for having me here. It’s a pleasure. Um, as far as this moment goes, you talk about your story. So if we’re in the, in the books, our books, your book of your life and your book of my life, like this right now, if we open both our books to page today, this is our crossover moment, like where the flash is up on Supergirl.

Nina Sossamon Pogue: Like we’re having this crossover episode. So I’m so [00:51:00] excited to be part of your crossover moment. Uh, so thank you. Thank you so much for having me. This has been really great. I hope that we stay connected and do more in the future.

Judd Shaw: I want to extend my deepest gratitude to you. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, please follow us on your favorite platforms.

Judd Shaw: Platform or share this episode with a friend. You can also follow me on Instagram at Judge Shaw official. The special thank you to Personal Injury Law firm, judge Shaw Injury Law for their support in helping us bring this podcast to life. Remember, friends, authenticity isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being real.

Judd Shaw: It’s about embracing our vulnerabilities, celebrating our strengths, and owning our stories. Until next time.