Pick Up the Phone & Save a Life | Adam Greenspan

Adam Greenspan 00:00 

A lot of people I think do kind of freak out and get in their own head when they’re stressful things oh my god what did you tell and what’s the story now it no you just got to see what a problem is you got to come up with a plan or solution and then you got to execute it somebody’s in a crisis I don’t really just got to try to help somebody got to try to figure it out you know in your case you were just you were begging for help 

 

Judd Shaw 00:36 

In the last episode, we talked about rock bottom and what it feels like, how isolating it is, how hard it is to see a way out. But the truth is, when you’re in that moment, sometimes the difference between life and death is one thing, whether someone picks up the phone. For me, that person was Adam. June 2020, I was laying on my garage floor, spiraling, convinced there was no way forward. I was 50-50 on whether I would even try. At that moment, I did the only thing I could think. I called Adam, and he answered. What happened next wasn’t some perfect Hollywood moment, although my escape to rehab felt like James Bond. It wasn’t some grand intervention. It was one person showing up for another.  Adam stayed on the phone with me. He searched for rehab centers on the web, while also trying to keep me comforted. He helped me put one foot in front of the other, when I couldn’t see how. This episode is about taking that call. What it looks like when someone you know is at their breaking point, and how you can actually help. Because too many people don’t know what to say, or how to respond, or they’re afraid of doing the wrong thing at all. But the truth is, showing up imperfectly is better than not showing up at all. And so today, I wanna introduce you to Adam, the friend who answered. And together, we’re going to talk about what that moment was like for him, what he was thinking, what he was afraid of, what he learned from it. And we’ll get his observations about being around my ex, and the keen sense of warning signs that he probably had. Because if you ever find yourself on the other end of that phone call, you’ll wanna know what to do. Adam, thank you for being here, and more importantly, thanks for taking that call. You’re welcome. Do you remember, I called you on that garage floor, and I tell you I’m broken, I’m done, I don’t know how to stop. And you didn’t hang up, you stayed on the phone with me. Can you take me back to that moment?  

 

Adam Greenspan 03:10 

Your memory is probably better than mine about it. I do remember obviously the call and everything that transpired, but the exact words I couldn’t really tell you.  What I can tell you is that you were in a very bad place, dark place, you were feeling very desperate and you needed help.  

 

Judd Shaw 03:34 

So, you had really no experience in this area. You don’t have addiction in your own side, but yet, somehow…  

 

Adam Greenspan 03:45 

Well, that’s not 100% true. I mean, I have my own like addictions, but not necessarily drug or alcohol. I’m good with that.  But you know, I maybe have a Twinkie addiction, but whatever, I think I’ve kicked that.  

 

Judd Shaw 04:01 

Well, I hadn’t kicked my addiction at that point, right? And you just had this ability, this awareness of what I needed, right? So you knew that I needed access to a phone because I was an owner of a company that it couldn’t just go into a place where we’d be shut down for 30 to 60 to 90 days. Um, and you didn’t just give me a number, right? So you’re on, on the web, you’re looking and you actually even three weighed me in to a woman named Rebecca who answers the phone from this rehab that you found. And you made sure that I was heard.  And so why chapters, why California, do you remember like your suggestions and your gut feeling at the time?  

 

Adam Greenspan 04:48 

Well, first of all, I like to shop, so it was probably like a little online shop. And I probably said, well, if you’re gonna go to rehab, you’re not gonna go to like Wyoming or North Dakota, let’s go someplace nice, right? If you’re gonna try to get better, let’s try to find a good environment. So we probably discuss someplace warm, maybe Miami, maybe California. I think that’s what the conversation probably was, that’s what I recall it to be, or knowing myself what I would have suggested.  And also I think California is kind of famous for rehabs, a lot of celebrities and things out there, people out there that have those type of issues. And so I went on the internet and I was searching probably rehab California or best rehabs, and we found different ones. And I’m sure I looked at the details. If they take the insurance, they didn’t take insurance, I forgot what the status was. And then we said, okay, well, let’s call somebody. Obviously it must’ve been pretty bad at the time, if I was like on the phone, calling them immediately, it wasn’t something that could really wait. So yeah, I remember calling and those people are happy to get a call because that’s how they stay in business. So we called and I remember us talking to them and giving them information. And I don’t know, it was pretty fast, I think. I’m not sure how long we were on the phone for before we kind of had like something booked, but I think we booked it pretty quickly.  

 

Judd Shaw 06:26 

Was there sort of this checklist you talked about, you know, insurance and warm weather and reputation for rehabs, you know, somebody listening to this who may be on your side of it, trying to help someone else. Is there any suggestion on even, you know, how to walk through that call?  

 

Adam Greenspan 06:50 

Well, I mean, I guess before you get in the phone, you’d probably want to do a little research and look up maybe the reputation. You know, you could do a Google search and people come up, it’s not based on how good they are, it’s based on their Google ranking or how good their search engine optimization is. So, you probably want to take a look and see what pops up and then maybe go and look for reviews of those places, see if they seem reputable, if they’re independent reviews, not necessarily what’s on their website, you know, maybe if there’s complaints against them or do a little research. Yeah, somebody could put some nice pictures up and nice testimonials, but I guess you want an independent opinion.  But it was kind of like a crisis thing, so we weren’t like, okay, let’s shop around, take a few weeks. We were like, this is like kind of 911 type situation from what I remember. So we just wanted to get you to someplace that could help you and so we went down to checklist and it seemed like a good place and I think it worked, so I guess we did the right thing. Yeah.  

 

Judd Shaw 07:59 

And I, and I, if I recall, it was a weekend, I think it was a Saturday and they also answered the phone, right? So they had an intake, similar to, you know, the injury law firms, you and I work at, and you know, they, they were professional in onboarding that. And I think that you really talk to them for me, um, and you’re just like, Judd, go grab your wallet. I need you to, they need your insurance information. And you know, it was like, you were just asking me questions, which, um, those very little sort of directions I could follow at that, at that point, I wonder, did it come out of nowhere for you?  Because you had, you had just recently, um, it was during COVID and, um, and so we’re all shuttered down, but you had come to my home, uh, with your incredible gold Lamborghini uh, um, and my, you know, my kids were enamored by it and hanging out with them and stuff, but you were also around my ex, around me. And so, and, and you knew sort of what was up with my ex and myself in the coming. So was this, did this come out of nowhere for you? Did you see warning signs? Warning sign? Yeah. Like from.  

 

Adam Greenspan 09:22 

a thousand miles away. Yeah, you were, you had your issues, you know? You’ve always been a good person, but you had your issues, your demons, whatever you want to call it.  And I think when I went to visit you, it was at Rumson. Yeah, I think. Yeah, so it was strange. Yeah, because you were acting a little bit different, you were super paranoid, you were worried about some things, there’s things about like, I forget what it was, train whistles, and like, you know, people following you, whatever, it was all sorts of crazy. Some stuff might’ve been based in reality, as we’ve talked about, and some stuff was maybe a little bit paranoia, you know, when you’re high or getting high, like reality can be distorted. So it was definitely, you know, you were like off the rails, like Looney Tunes, but it just seemed a little bit strange, you know? So yeah, I mean, again, some people have a better way of hiding it, or masking it, or high functioning, like you were like a high functioning, you know, for lack of a better word, addict. So you could fool people. I mean, I knew something was a little bit up, but even I was like, all right, maybe there are people from, you know, another planet, you know, in the backyard or whatever, you were saying.  

 

Judd Shaw 10:51 

Yeah, it was we were losing our minds. Yeah, really. I remember that. I mean, psychological safety was out of the, you know, out of the picture at that point.  And her and I were we’re both, you know, the reality gets distorted, you don’t know what’s real and what’s not. And for for family and friends who may say, well, what are those warning signs? What would you say?  

 

Adam Greenspan 11:20 

Well, we all know what’s normal behavior and what’s abnormal behavior. So if somebody’s acting different than they normally do or they’re acting anxious or they’re saying things that just don’t make sense or it just, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it’s probably a duck. So, you just gotta like use your gut instinct. But it’s tough because people are not professionals, can’t really tell if somebody is using, they’re not using, is this reality, is it not reality? But usually you could tell if something’s a little bit off that somebody might have a problem.  But the issue is most people who have a problem, whether it’s alcohol, drugs, food, they don’t like to be called out on it. So obviously it’s like a little bit delicate. So sometimes somebody’s gotta hit their own rock bottom and ask for help before you can like step in. You could try, but if somebody doesn’t want help, they’re not gonna take help.  

 

Judd Shaw 12:21 

Well, Chrissy, my chief operating officer, she didn’t even have any clue and I’m working alongside her every day. And so I think high functioning is a good word, but wondering at that point between the time that I saw you and the time that I called you, which it was like just the same day I was coming out of jail, that wasn’t a lot of time.  Was there any moment that you thought you were going to say something?  

 

Adam Greenspan 12:54 

I don’t remember. I mean, we always had conversations about things, but again, I never really like calling people out on something, it’s like obviously a sensitive subject, but yeah, the whole jail thing and all that.  And also if I recall, like you would tell me a story, but it would be filtered probably. So I might not have gotten like, like we may have talked about it after the fact, but you might’ve like filtered, you know, like, hey, yeah, I got picked up. I was speeding right in my license. Oh, you forgot the fact that there was like, you know, vials of like crack or whatever it was in the car. Maybe you filter that out. So I didn’t always get the story. I might’ve been suspicious of it, but you know, you’re an adult, so it’s tough to like be like, no, you’re lying to me, you know? Right. You know, tell me the real truth. Although there’s nothing really wrong with trying to help somebody and they have to want help, but obviously you needed the help, you wanted the help. And that’s what we did on the day that we’re talking about. But yeah, it was becoming worse and worse. But again, you were a high functioning person. So some things you could be like, well, it could be this or it could be that, you know? It wasn’t always super clear, you know? Cause you never really did anything in front of me. So if you were high or you were on drugs, before I saw you, I wouldn’t necessarily know.  

 

Judd Shaw 14:23 

So when I was, went in jail, um, they give you the phone call that everybody hears about. You get one phone call today, at least for me, I don’t know most people’s phone numbers because we just, just to have them saved in our contacts and just, you know, auto dial somebody.  But thankfully you hadn’t changed your number in a lifetime and I knew your number, right? And so I called you and I told you what was going on. Did you feel at the time, did you know that like I was in an ultimately an innocent man in jail, not innocent of life circumstances, but innocent of the charge?  

 

Adam Greenspan 15:02 

Well, are you asking me if I believed whatever you were telling me? Yeah, I probably did because I knew the other person that was involved. And, you know, sometimes when there’s like domestic issues, there’s, you know, my truth, her truth, or her truth and your truth, and then there’s reality. So, you know, sometimes there’s a mix of things going on, but yeah, I mean, I didn’t really, I forgot, it was a DV allegation or something like that.  Yeah, yeah, I mean, I don’t know. You’re a lot of things, but not necessarily a brawler. So, I don’t really think that that was probably the case, but yeah, I mean, like I said, there was, you know, people do things for different reasons, you know. Sometimes people are told, hey, do this, say this. You know, if you say this, make this allegation, you get somebody out of the house, or whatever the story might be. So, I didn’t necessarily, you know, in other words, just because somebody has one issue doesn’t mean that, you know, that everything is bad. It just means they might have an issue. So, I didn’t actually think you were a criminal, you know. And I didn’t really think that you, you know, hit your partner. And as we know, that ended up being thrown out, and it wasn’t true. So, but, you know, when you’re friends and you have a close relationship, you know, you stand by your friends, you know, through good and bad. So, I’m sure it wasn’t being judgmental at the time, but yeah, you know, I probably didn’t think that you did whatever it was that was alleged at the time.  

 

Judd Shaw 16:46 

So one of the problems was getting me off that garage floor and keeping me from literally perhaps even committing suicide. And then the next problem was how do you get me there, right? Because we knew that I was being watched. I had gone to your home a little bit earlier, a couple days earlier and wrote an email to my ex telling her that I wanted a divorce and that we should try to stay together in terms of how we go through this process for the benefit of our own children, pleading to her not to make this ugly. We both need help.  And now at this point, she has investigators. They’re just literally following me everywhere. And so I was on a cul-de-sac living in Rumson, New Jersey. And I needed to get to that rehab privately. I needed that psychological safety in order for me to heal. And so we came up with this plan that Chrissy, my chief operating officer, had another employee laying in the backseat of her car. She drives up to the house. I tell her, let me know when you’re there. In the meantime, I’m dressed in a black pants, black shirt, a black hat. I’m walking on the front porch, like totally trying to be noticed by these cars that are parked outside and these investigators that are watching me. And Chrissy pulls into the garage and I close the garage and I had my suitcase packed and the employee gets in my go bag. The employee gets out of the car. I take my black hat. I put it on him and he gets in my car. And then I lay down in the back of Chrissy’s car and she doesn’t even know what’s going on. She’s probably like losing it. And I told her, you know, listen, you have to drive. And when you drive, just drive, keep driving and turn right at the end of the block. And I told the employee, when you get to the end of the block, you go left in my car, just drive to my office, leave the keys on the desk. And sure enough, as she pulls out of the driveway, she says, you’re being followed. And I said, exactly. And she picked up on that. And I think at that point knew what was going on. And the employee pulls left and the investigators follow my car, just like the plan had hoped to work. That was a pretty good plan.  Yeah, it was. And then Chrissy, you hatched that plan, I think, right? Well, I did.  

 

Adam Greenspan 19:32 

See, even in your alternate  

 

Judd Shaw 19:33 

State, that crafty. It was.  And then Chrissy drove me to an executive airport where I had a private jet waiting for me because I had to be wheels up before they get the tail number and new where to track me and to go. And then I’m wheels up and I know that I stopped into Florida first to have my boat, meet up with my boat because there were some items on my boat that I wanted. And my ex had put a tracker on that boat and Luby, the boat mate who was working the yacht at the time, legendary Luby, legendary Luby, saw that on the engine and when they came in and put it on and he and then, you know, got rid of the tracker and they were able to move the boat from Ocean Reef in Key Largo up to West Palm. I think we should make a movie out of this. Right? Yeah. So he gets rid of the tracker. The boat gets moved to West Palm. I fly into West Palm. We put the tracker on a porpoise and it went out to sea.  

 

Adam Greenspan 20:33 

Hahaha  

 

Judd Shaw 20:34 

I think they’re still following that Dolph. Right? They probably are.  From there, I flew to California. So I pulled off this greatest escape, right? And no one in the entire world knew where I was except for you and Chrissy. And there were a lot of people looking for me. They would come to the office and play like they were clients needing to look for me and hire me. They were trying to serve me. And so, and you know, and so that night though, the first night before I checked into rehab was absolutely brutal. I was coming- In Florida. Yeah, I was- That I remember pretty well. I was withdrawing. You were still there talking to me on the phone, through it all, providing compassion. You never hung up.  And I remember, I mean, I was in the pain that I was in was so significant- Physical pain. Physical pain. Yeah, withdrawal pain. Yeah, withdrawal. My body was just aching. And you said to me, take a photo, take a video and don’t forget this version of yourself. And I took that video and I actually use it in my keynote speaking when I talk about the feeling of being broken, but we’re not broken. That’s just a narrative and belief. Why, do you remember telling me that? And what was that about?  

 

Adam Greenspan 21:53 

I have a lot of great ideas. It must’ve been just one of my great ideas.  Maybe I thought that if you took that video to kind of remember how you were feeling and how you looked in your worst moment, that would be a good reminder if you ever were going down the wrong path to watch that again, to kind of like keep you from straying, kind of like you gotta remember where you came from type of thing. So it’s like I have some pictures when I was about like 80 or 85 pounds heavier, which I really don’t like, but I have it on my Instagram with the transformation picture. When I ever look at that picture, it always kind of like, it wakes you up. You’re like, if you were thinking about like either not exercising or reading the wrong things, whatever, you see that picture, you’re like, F it. Can I say, can I curse in here? Fuck it. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. No, you’re just like, now I’m not gonna do that. So I probably thought that if you were ever in a bad spot and you watched that video, and even if you’re a good spot and you’re in a good spot, it’s good to remember that. And then it’ll kind of like sober you up, so to speak, or I think that would be the best way to describe it.  

 

Judd Shaw 23:34 

The picture is me on that plane, I had my head shaved. I remember I had still like a sort of a scar on my forehead because I had walked into the glass shower door that night before morning and all those hours blend together when you’re doing crystal methamphetamine.  And I didn’t even see the shower door when I was walking to the bathroom. And it’s the eyes, right? They say the eyes tell the picture. And when I look into those eyes, just like when you see yourself in your before and after and your transformation is just as remarkable and amazing of what it takes to get there. Those eyes just tell me how deeply shameful, painful I was. You know, that’s where I see the emotional pain. Yeah. The kind of support that you are providing, it literally saves lives. It’s not always dramatic or flashy like some of the stories we’re talking about, but it’s the quiet steady presence. And I was wondering for people listening, how were you able to stay calm when someone you love is so deep in the hole?  

 

Adam Greenspan 25:05 

You know what, look, life is stressful in all aspects of it and you have to stay calm in general if you wanna be successful, whatever that might be. If you’re helping a friend, if you’re trying to do a good job at work, you’re trying to achieve some fitness goal, you’re trying to achieve financial goals, you can’t be frantic, you can’t be out of control. So I think that may be just like a skillset that I have that even if things are bad or things are negative or things are stressful, I just try to stay calm. Bruce Lee has a very famous saying that says, calm is a superpower. So you have to stay calm.  One of the people that I admire and respect the most, Tom Brady, he was always calm under pressure. He was in the pocket. He didn’t have a lot of great foot speed. He wasn’t once scramble, but he stayed calm. He got the ball out of there and boom, they would just march down the field. So it’s about staying calm and just dealing with the problem. A lot of people, I think, do kind of freak out and get in their own head when there’s stressful things. Oh my God, what did you tell? And what’s the story, I went out. No, you just got to see what a problem is. You got to come up with a plan or a solution and then you got to execute it. So obviously we got you out of there and then got you to California for rehab. And then if you’re gonna support somebody, that’s what you got to do. You got to be there, have conversation. You were with professionals. So you just check in with somebody, try not to be judgmental, try to just keep the ball moving down the field.  

 

Judd Shaw 27:06 

Yeah, you moved it not 100 yards, but over 3,000 miles from coast to coast, staying on the phone continuously when I was in Florida, back on the plane, back when I landed in Huntington Beach. And now I’m watching the palm trees as I get picked up and the blur going in this van and thinking, okay, like this is it.  It was a moment that I felt that I crossed the threshold of survival into surrender. And I was wondering what was going through your head in those final moments like when I finally got there, you know, and now you know I’m checked in. And what’s that feeling like if you can even remember it for…  

 

Adam Greenspan 28:02 

I mean, again, it’s tough to remember all these. For you, it’s probably much more clear because you lived it. I was on the other end of it. But I’m sure I had a feeling of relief that you were with like professional people that had a plan, had dealt with this before.  It was like, again, we’re talking football metaphor, it was the handoff, you know what I mean? So they got the handoff and they were gonna help you. And as long as you were willing to be helped and you wanted to be helped, then it was gonna work. There’s only so much you can do. I mean, a lot of it depends on the individual, but the fact that you were like, hey, I need to go, I need to get to a rehab. Most people don’t say that. A lot of times people are getting forced into that. People have interventions, but you were like, okay, I need help.  So obviously you were ready. And then once you get there, you gotta put the work in. I mean, you were kind of there, but I think if I recall, you mentioned something about, what was that other city in California? Huntington Beach. Huntington Beach. We had a little bit of a hiccup.  

 

Judd Shaw 29:14 

Huntington Beach. You gave me a couple hours before I checked in. It’s like, right. That’s true.  

 

Adam Greenspan 29:21 

Scofield prison break. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, that’s true. It definitely was a little hiccup there.  

 

Judd Shaw 29:26 

Yeah, I almost fumbled.  

 

Adam Greenspan 29:29 

Yeah, almost.  

 

Judd Shaw 29:30 

What did you think that if you can think about it that I may have needed that I didn’t know that I needed like was there anything that you could thinking back at the time like what you think I needed that maybe I didn’t even realize I needed like for instance for me the break from just from my ex and from the behavior that was sort of like codependent and trauma bonding in and we’re both doing drugs and we’re both just you know she’s buying pipes on Amazon for me I mean completely enabling my behavior and so for me one of those things I never thought was that I just needed to get away from there right what’s your thought on that.  

 

Adam Greenspan 30:18 

Yeah, I mean, yeah, if you’re with somebody who’s not helping you and they’re hindering you, yeah, that’s obviously, you need to get out of that situation. But sometimes when people are really close with another person, or if they’re looking at a situation from a really close, you know, myopic viewpoint, they don’t really know what’s going on.  You know, they don’t really know that the person they’re with is not helping them, they’re hurting them. You know, that the relationship is toxic. And maybe I didn’t even realize it too, until you started divulging things, but, you know, and again, you didn’t tell me all this stuff until after, you know, when, you know, you were at your worst about, hey, you know, this person’s enabling me, they’re helping me, they even did some drugs with me that they would deny, they probably still deny to this day, but, you know, you were there, you know what happened, there’s no reason to make it up.  

 

Judd Shaw 31:19 

You knew my father, Gary Shaw. He was a famous boxing promoter, put on some of the biggest fights, Louis Holyfield. And I think that was fitting for him as a big time promoter because I think he was always up for a fight. You knew him for decades, the good and the bad and the ugly.  And I remember there was a moment where I was in the Ocean Reef Club, walking my daughter in her stroller and I get a phone call. And it’s my father. And I say that hesitantly because when I answered, I said, what’s up, dad? And he said, don’t call me dad. I’m not your father. And I see that you’re a big shot. You’re on these billboards all over the place. Any story could kill your reputation and you’re going to pay me a million dollars and I won’t go around telling stories about you. And I remember I flew out to Aspen. I hired an attorney. That attorney ultimately was wired when he met Gary in Miami, unbeknownst to Gary. And he thought he was negotiating on my behalf and now we have him for extortion. And ultimately Gary acknowledged that in a deposition later on. But the fact that he really attempted to extort me, from your perspective, how did you think that my relationship with my father played into any of this?  

 

Adam Greenspan 33:05 

Well, obviously, yeah, you had a very fucked up relationship, family relationship. I mean, it’s not just your father. I mean, your whole dynamic growing up, the divorce, moving away from your mother, you have a stepmom, you have brother, stepbrothers, and the whole relationship, all the relationships, your nuclear relationships were kind of fractured. So yeah, I guess we’re all a product of our environment, and your environment and your upbringing, well, I can’t speak to the details of it, only what I know about it, but it definitely wasn’t normal.  And it didn’t seem like it was super healthy. And even your adult relationship with your father was strange, stressful, and not exactly healthy. I mean, a lot of people got along with your dad, I got along with your dad, but there was a different side to him and different relationship that you had. And then eventually he kind of turned on me. You know what I mean? He talked bad about me when I wasn’t around and things like that. But whenever he was a character, there was good parts and bad parts, but he was very angry and super judgmental and whatever. He had his own viewpoint on things. And he was a little bit of a control freak.  

 

Judd Shaw 34:47 

When, when I came out of rehab, unbeknownst to me, when never in my wildest dream would I think of it, um, I went there to become the best version of myself, be better on myself and um, and I never spoke, uh, I should say never hugged or kissed my children again. They were alienated from me.  They were, they would call you uncle Adam. You knew them well. Um, and you know, they were told a side of a story. They were told things that they shouldn’t have been told that were way too young. You know, um, we should never really make our, our children choose between, um, parents. Um, what was it like as, as my best friend to sort of watch me lose a piece of that, um, by losing my kids in this process and, and your observation of even me as a, as a father, when you would see me, you know, if they were listening right now. What, what would you want my children to know?  

 

Adam Greenspan 35:49 

Well, I know it was, and it is still as painful, but you kind of had no choice. I mean, the deck at that point was a little bit stacked against you, you know? You were trying to get a divorce, trying to, you know, separate from somebody. Your wife at the time was kind of using the kids as leverage. I mean, I know you want to have a relationship with them, and I know that you care about them, but they’re kind of being withheld, but, you know, nothing stays the same.  So I would say that, you know, the situation is what it is, but it’s temporary because, you know, things have a way of working themselves out, whether it’s just through time or legally, or, you know, the kids have their own curiosity. I’m sure it’s not going to stay the way it is now, you know, even if, you know, maybe other people don’t want that to be the case. It’s probably not going to stay the way it is forever.  

 

Judd Shaw 37:04 

You didn’t just take my call. You really saved a life.  And it’s wild and beautiful because ultimately, I met a man named Rich in rehab. And the audience will hear from Rich as a guest in the final episode of the Addiction Series. And Rich was actually in that same 50-50 place. And why I mentioned that, I remember I called you not so long ago just to share with you that I had not realized that Rich said that when I called him one day, he was laying in his bed looking at the ceiling thinking about how to end his life. And he was one breath away from giving up. And somehow I got to be on that other end of that call as well. And so in a very real way, you didn’t just save my life. You saved Rich’s life too.  To someone listening who gets the same call from a friend, a brother, from someone hurting. And what do they say? What do they do? You didn’t have a manual. Somehow you got it right.  I’m here. I’m living proof. I’m sober. What advice do you give to just anybody taking the call who has an opportunity to literally save a life?  

 

Adam Greenspan 38:37 

I don’t know what the exact formula is, but in general, you have to show up for the people in your life, whatever that means. And if somebody is in crisis or in a really bad place, you have to know what to do. It’s just about trying to do the right thing.  Lots of times there’s people that are like, let’s say it wasn’t your thing, but they have drinking problems or drinking and they’re always getting drunk. And then all the friends go out and it’s time to go home. And this is not the exact situation, but they’ll just let their friends get in a car drunk. That person’s not actually asking for help, but that’s when you got to take somebody’s keys away or drive them home or put them in the Uber. It’s just doing the right thing.  But as far as somebody’s in a crisis, I don’t really just got to try to help somebody. You got to try to figure it out.  In your case, you were begging for help. So I’m like, okay, well, you’re like, hey, I got to go someplace. Okay, so if you can Google, you could probably fix a lot of things in life. You need a plumber, you Google plumber. You need a rehab, you Google rehab.  

 

Judd Shaw 39:54 

have. Last question for you because you used some sports metaphors in this and I have to tell you, I know personally that you are the absolute Michael Jordan of what you do. You are the greatest at what you do.  I mean, I’d like to think it’s a gift, but it’s also just the skill set and the tenacity. How do you be great? What is it that makes you so good at what you do?  

 

Adam Greenspan 40:28 

Well, I think with anything, if you wanna be good at it or you wanna be successful at it, it’s a lot of it’s like repetition and doing it over and over again. It doesn’t mean it’s an automatic, but they say if you put 10,000 hours into a certain type of event, skill, sport, activity, you’ll be an expert. So I think I went back and I calculated how many hours I have in, probably it’s around 50,000 hours. So that’s one thing.  The other thing is if you like what you’re doing or you’re interested in that subject, you’ll probably have a better chance. I mean, look, if you wanna be the fastest man in the world, I mean, it doesn’t matter how many races you run, it may not work out. But there’s a lot of things that you can become good at or excellent at, just by, as I mentioned earlier, you used to call Michael Jordan, and I appreciate that. But also a couple of people have dubbed me TB12 or Tom Brady, not to be too arrogant, although I am arrogant a little bit sometimes. I think his thing that he said is like, it’s hard work, it’s dedication, it’s putting the time and effort in. You don’t have to be the most skilled best person, but through hard work, you can make it happen. You know what? I think a word that describes me is relentless. I’m relentless. I’m like a dog with a bone for whatever it is I wanna do. And that’s how you get what you want out of life.  

 

Judd Shaw 42:32 

I remember it was like, uh, that’s the feeling I had in rehab, uh, working really hard at it, trying to get others to, to step up to, and I, I just, you would daily say things like I’m proud of you, stay with it, get healthy first, focus on you, um, I’ll never forget that call. I’ll never forget what you did, um, and I hope someone listening right now, um, knows that, that, that all of us, um, have an opportunity to be an Adam.  And I mean that by, by just being able to be supportive and vulnerable and staying on the phone when someone is in their darkest hole, and that’s how you save a life. So thanks for saving mine.