Belonging is the Future with Smiley Poswolsky

Judd Shaw: [00:00:00] Loneliness is an emotion. It’s my body telling me you need more connection. Welcome to Behind the Armor, where we deep dive into the heart of what matters. I’m your host, Judd Shaw, adventurer, storyteller, agent of change, and speaker on authenticity and truth. and human connection. Join me as we explore the complexities of human connection featuring theorists, scientists, and speakers.

Judd Shaw: Our mission is simple, to inspire you to reclaim your true self and create genuine connections with others. Join me as we lay down our armor and live authentically. Hello, you beautiful people, and thanks for tuning in. Today we’re talking with Adam Smiley Baswalsky. Smiley is an internationally renowned keynote speaker.

Judd Shaw: Workplace belonging and future of work expert and best selling author of three books that have been translated into multiple languages. Smiley shares industry shaping insights in practical tools [00:01:00] to attract and retain top talent across generations. Create a culture belonging and engage high performing teams at world class organizations like Apple, Google, Verizon, and Amazon.

Judd Shaw: And the U. S. Navy Smiley’s Ted Talk has been viewed two million times, and he has delivered 600 keynotes in front of a quarter of a million people in 25 countries. Let’s uncover what’s behind the armor with Smiley. Your name, your expression, your vibe, your passion for belonging. It’s a perfect fit. Smiley, welcome to the show.

Smiley Poswolsky: Thank you, Judd. Thank you for having me. It’s great to be here with you today.

Judd Shaw: You know, you are a workplace belonging expert. You have been a bestselling author of three books. You are an internationally renowned keynote speaker. [00:02:00] How do you create belonging?

Smiley Poswolsky: Yeah, I think, uh, just to back up a bit, I think just, it’s helpful to kind of look at what belonging really is, um, before kind of figuring out how to create it.

Smiley Poswolsky: For me, it feels like the big piece is, is making people feel like they can be themselves. Is, is, is people being able to show up as who they are? Is people being able to express Um, their feelings, their opinions, their feedback, their ideas, and frankly, just themselves in whatever that means their expression, their history, their background, their experience, uh, which I think is really hard because we live in a complex workplace.

Smiley Poswolsky: Things are changing very quickly. Oftentimes, employees are not working in the same place physically, uh, even if they’re working for the same company, um, and they may be working different hours. They may be working on different tools. And creating that sense where everyone can be themselves, that sense where people can [00:03:00] show up and do their best work, I think is one of the great challenges.

Smiley Poswolsky: Of the future of work and frankly, just the world we live in, which is more disconnected and lonely than ever before, as you know, very well. So what does it mean to create belonging? I think it means to make people feel like that they’re part of something in a world where a lot of people don’t

Judd Shaw: smiley before you understood all of this.

Judd Shaw: And before you got into the heart of your work. Which I love there was that Smiley 1. 0 who was lonely himself, deeply lonely. What was going on behind the armor with that Smiley 1. 0?

Smiley Poswolsky: Yeah, well, let me take you to like the before Smiley 1. 0 kind of like Smiley 0. 0. Yeah, but the The kind of like origin story, like, you know, like the evolution, [00:04:00] like the Batman, Batman begins, I always think of Batman begins like in terms of like, you know, yeah, so like I wasn’t born smiley.

Smiley Poswolsky: I, my name, my real name is Adam. Uh, I grew up, I still go by Adam, my, to some people in my life, my, my parents, my sister, my fiance, a couple of close friends from back in the day. But yeah, I grew up in, in Boston, Massachusetts, in Cambridge, Massachusetts. I, I was. You know, a pretty dorky, nerdy kid growing up.

Smiley Poswolsky: Uh, I’m, I’m still a pretty dorky, nerdy person, but, um, I, I wanted to play a sport in high school. I went to a very big public high school, like 2000 kids, and I wasn’t big enough or talented enough to play football or soccer, like the real sports. So I went out for cross country, which I didn’t know what that was.

Smiley Poswolsky: I assumed it was skiing, but it’s actually running. You just go run three miles or whatever, five miles. Um, And like during a hill workout, you know, like I’m kind of smiling up the hill, just being like, this is great. I’ve somehow on a cross country team, like, wasn’t too hard to get on it. [00:05:00] I’m getting exercise.

Smiley Poswolsky: And my coach is like this hard nosed Boston guy who just starts screaming at me, like,

Judd Shaw: what the hell are you doing? Smiling kids, stop smiling, stop puking kids, stop puking, stop puking kid.

Smiley Poswolsky: So the team nicknamed me Smiley. So I was like the slowest kid on the team. Never placed at any of our races. But I was like our cheerleader.

Smiley Poswolsky: I get everyone like pumped up, like,

Speaker 4: all right, we’re going to do it. Like, this is our moment guys. Like we got this, like to hell with Brookline. Like Newton sucks. Like, let’s go, you know, I would, I

Smiley Poswolsky: would place like pretty close to last, but I would, I would have a role, you know, And so like, I’d actually had a very, uh, deep experience of connection and belonging in high school, just as kind of like people knew me as Smiley, like people remember Smiley and, and it’s a big school and there are a lot of different people, very diverse group of folks, um, from, Like different ethnicities, races, backgrounds, like class, socioeconomic backgrounds.

Smiley Poswolsky: So like I had this experience in [00:06:00] high school and growing up of realizing what it meant to kind of like have a role to play and matter and belong and the sense that everyone on the team has a function regardless of like, How popular they are, how talented they are. If they’re the CEO, if they’re a junior associate.

Smiley Poswolsky: And then I kind of got to, you know, many years go by and I got to the workplace and I didn’t really feel that way. And I got to this, you know, you asked like kind of the, the evolution of, of the next phase of Smiley. And it was kind of like this, you know, being an adult. And, and feeling, wait a second, like, who are my real friends?

Smiley Poswolsky: And like, you know, like what is friendship mean? And, and especially as I got to be into my thirties, I went through this kind of real experience of, of, of loneliness. And I think a lot of us. Um, can associate with that, especially during the pandemic. But what’s interesting is like, I, you know, wrote about my experiences with loneliness prior to the pandemic.

Smiley Poswolsky: And [00:07:00] I tried to pitch this book called friendship in the age of loneliness. And the publisher’s like, we love the idea of friendship. That’s awesome. But you can’t have loneliness in the title. You have to change the title. And I was like, well, I’m lonely. Like, that’s what I’m going through. I’m feeling like.

Smiley Poswolsky: Not knowing my place in the world as an adult not knowing who my real friends are and and having all these Facebook friends or Instagram followers or whatever but not being like who are my actual people and they’re like, yeah Well, no one’s gonna buy a book with loneliness in the title because nobody wants to admit they’re lonely I’m like, well, I’m admitting I’m lonely.

Smiley Poswolsky: I’m writing the book like that’s why I’m writing this book for other people out there And they’re like, well, we’ll buy the book, but you have to change the title. Loneliness can’t be in the title. And I was like, all right, well, I want my book to get out there. Like, obviously, sure. Like you do what you got to do.

Smiley Poswolsky: You make sacrifices, you make compromises. And so that was like 2019. And then a couple months later, it was the pandemic and they reached back out. And they were like, [00:08:00] you know, you can put loneliness in the title. You can keep it in the title. And it was just like this interesting moment of, it took a pandemic for us to start talking about loneliness.

Smiley Poswolsky: Like all of the data showed even prior to 2020, that like almost half of Americans and now it’s, it’s, it’s 50 percent are lonely. And there’s like loneliness epidemics all around the world, Japan, Britain, Europe, Russia, Germany, everywhere. And yet we didn’t really talk about it or it was like taboo to talk about.

Smiley Poswolsky: There’s a stigma around it until everyone through went through this experience of like lockdown and. Not being able to go outside or see their friends or the kind of shift to remote and hybrid work. It’s just so interesting. Like, that’s what it takes as a society, you know, like, to be able to talk about something that so many of us are experiencing.

Smiley Poswolsky: Um, and so, like, one of the big experiences from or realizations for me was just, [00:09:00] like, naming this and naming how hard it is to be Uh, to find friends in his adult to keep friends as an adult is like kind of half the half the the victory like, yes, there’s a there’s frameworks. And yes, there’s solutions and tools and habits and actions we can take.

Smiley Poswolsky: And that’s what I love to explore in my work. But sometimes just like talking about it is actually creates like permission for people to explore. And it’s really powerful.

Judd Shaw: I so appreciate that answer. And you remind me that loneliness is an emotion. It’s my body telling me, you need more connection. It’s like when our stomach rumbles and says you need to eat, or maybe you have a headache and you need to rest.

Judd Shaw: That feeling of loneliness reminds me that it’s a body’s yearning for connection. [00:10:00] And I think about those days when I was playing sports even earlier than that. And, When I say playing sports, that’s a loose term because reality was I went out on the field and I didn’t get picked or I get picked last.

Judd Shaw: And so what I would do is I’d go home that night and I would tell my parents about all the great wins. The goals that I scored the touchdowns that I, you know, slam the football. Meanwhile, they were all made up. So where was my sense of belonging in my own household for me to feel that I needed to do that to be validated.

Judd Shaw: And when I understood that that’s where this, um, issue with loneliness started for me was a lack of sense of belonging. And I’ve learned. You [00:11:00] know, even for instance, your mission, your mission in the future of work is where everyone has a voice. Right. And also, it’s not that they just have a voice, but they’re listened to.

Judd Shaw: I wonder how much of my own life would have changed had one of my parents who took the time to know me really well, would have known that I was bullshitting about my goals. And they would have said, you know, why do you feel that you need to come home and tell us about made up achievements? What about you isn’t feeling worthy?

Judd Shaw: Hmm.

Smiley Poswolsky: Yeah, I love that. Or like, yeah, there’s a lot there. Thanks for sharing that. I mean, you know, like, where, like, to be able to feel safe enough to have those conversations for you to come home and be like, did you score a touchdown? I didn’t even get picked. Right? I didn’t [00:12:00] even play. I sat on the sideline, like, and then for someone to be able to respond to be like, Not, Oh, that’s your fault.

Smiley Poswolsky: Or like, Oh, you need to get better to be picked. Or like, Oh my gosh, that must be so hard. That’s horrible. Let’s talk about that. Or do you even want to play sports or, or like, I’m so sorry. I, you know, but that’s, that’s, and it’s so hard to like, you know, it’s like society, you know, a lot of this comes down to, I think that we’re not, we’re not given these skills.

Smiley Poswolsky: You know, I was just, like, having a conversation about how, you know, as, as kids, as an adult, frankly, even in college, like, no one teaches people, like, the art of human connection, the art of belonging, like, how to, how to listen, how to have empathy for people. If we’re lucky, we have experiences in our life or meet people along the way, or have had the ability to be in therapy or, you know, Or to take some really cool, you know, classes and come across awesome books.

Smiley Poswolsky: But like, it’s [00:13:00] not something that most of us are taught. It’s like not people’s fault. That they don’t know how to express those things. Cause we go through life, frankly, being told by many messages that you’re not supposed to, right. Or that like, you’re supposed to keep that stuff inside. Or like, if you didn’t get picked, it’s your fault.

Smiley Poswolsky: Or if like, you don’t belong, like, you know, you’re a loser. Like. That’s not true, but like that’s not, um, it’s, it’s like people just, we, we haven’t had that education. Uh, we haven’t had that, you know, it’s like so interesting with the friendship book. The stuff that I, that I write about in there, you know, and, and when I was thinking about it, I was like, do people, people, do we, like, do we need a book about friendship?

Smiley Poswolsky: A lot of people would ask me, like, I think people know how to be friends. And I was like, and I’m like, yeah, like, I think you, you intuitively know, like when you’re a kid, it’s like, do you want to play? Like, that’s what you ask another person. Do [00:14:00] you want to play? Like you’re on the playground. It’s like slot, like slide swings, sandbox blocks, tag, sit there on the bench and, and make up a world.

Smiley Poswolsky: Like it’s infinite. And that’s all you need is to ask somebody like, are you in? Like, do you want to do this? No, you don’t want to do this. Do you want to do that? And then you get to be in an adult and like, I don’t think people know how to make friends. And, you know, that was, that was the conclusion of, uh, of a lot of the, the, the book and the research.

Smiley Poswolsky: It’s like, no, actually like the steps are become a lot more complicated. It becomes a lot more challenging. We get, we’re, we’re busy. How do you fit this in? How do you actually like, when you meet somebody interesting and you’re like, let’s be friends, like, what does that look like? You know? And it’s not, and it’s platonic, you know, dating.

Smiley Poswolsky: I think we have a little bit more of the roadmap, but like not for friendship. Um, and I, and, you know, so I think like it’s. It’s interesting. Some people may look at the connection and belonging work as like soft. Right. As like, that’s not necessary. Those aren’t business skills. [00:15:00] Those aren’t professional skills.

Smiley Poswolsky: I think it could be, couldn’t be further from the truth. I think they might, they’re the most important school skills for performance and business, uh, that exists, right. They’re the unseen skills that make people superheroes, you know, like social health, emotional wellbeing, like empathy, um, understanding where someone is coming from.

Smiley Poswolsky: Seeing someone in the room being like, I’m getting the sense that you don’t feel part of this. Like, how do I bring you in? Or like, Hey, like, you know, like tell me what’s coming up for you. Like that type of thing is so critical right now. Um, not just like, let’s get it done. Get on board. You know, I think we get it done and we get people on board.

Smiley Poswolsky: By giving people the time and space to connect by giving people the time and space to express themselves by making people laugh and play and go outside their comfort zone and try something new.

Judd Shaw: And there’s so much there that I want to unpack. It reminds me that when I, [00:16:00] uh, one of my first law firm offices, there was a conference room and I put a name on the conference room.

Judd Shaw: And it said the sandbox. Mmm, I love that. And it was like the idea, the concept of come in here, bring your toys, and everybody can play with the ideas. And, um, and I wonder, you know, yes, Smiley, to the extent that these soft skills are becoming more and more apparent and critical. To businesses to operate as highly efficient, highly profitable, productive, you know, really being able to harness your team’s energy and emotional intelligence, a sense of belonging.

Judd Shaw: But we’re not teaching these things before they get to the workplace. And so now. When they’re in the workplace and you’re teaching belonging, how do you measure it? [00:17:00]

Smiley Poswolsky: Yeah, that’s a great question. Um, I think there’s some great tools out there. Um, I, I love Culture Amp and 15. 5 do a lot of great work and kind of like the employee engagement space in terms of.

Smiley Poswolsky: surveys in terms of feedback surveys, in terms of tools to kind of measure, like how, um, how, what, like what sense of belonging do you have on your team? Um, and there’s some great questions. I actually just released this toolkit, uh, the workplace belonging toolkit, which is actually like a free download for anyone.

Smiley Poswolsky: And I cite some research in there, um, from Coke ball, uh, which used to be called the center for talent innovation. They kind of have a quantifiable definition. That, uh, belonging is that we’re seeing for our unique contributions connected with our co workers supported in our daily work and career development and proud of our organization’s values and purpose.

Smiley Poswolsky: So, like, kind of being able to measure on those 4 things. Um, is what they use as a quantifiable definition. This is based on kind of research [00:18:00] with thousands of employees from, from all over the world. Um, so I, I like that as, as, as kind of a quantifiable definition. Um, CultureAmp, who’s kind of one of the leading employee engagement, uh, software providers also kind of talks about the ability to voice a contrary opinion without feel of, uh, fear of negative consequences that your perspectives are included in decision making.

Smiley Poswolsky: That you, um, believe that your company, um, believes that people can greatly improve their talents and abilities and kind of grow over time and have that growth growth mindset. And I think for me, like things that I would add to that is the extent to which we have a care mindset at work. Are we taking care of our people?

Smiley Poswolsky: And this is like something that’s a little bit like less easy to kind of measure. But like, do people feel like they can make the ask at work? They can say like, hey, I need this or I’m not getting this. [00:19:00] And that they feel that they can get that support. And that they feel like they can give it to others.

Smiley Poswolsky: Like that ability to, to really ask for help and have this idea of like, self care, yes, but also community care, like we show up for other people, would be like what I would kind of, you know, uh, in my framework for belonging. really kind of advocate for like this idea of what is it like to have a care mindset at work where growth mindset we kind of know of right that’s the ability you know this idea that you can grow over time that your talents your skills are not innate.

Smiley Poswolsky: That is, you’re always growing. We’re lifelong learners. Anything can be approved upon. We’re having a constant life lifelong learner mindset. What does it mean to have a care mindset? And I think that that means that it’s like we put our people first, like our people as people matter more than their work output and that their well being improves.

Smiley Poswolsky: Your own well being improves when they take care of other people, which all of the research [00:20:00] shows, right? Which is like the, the coolest thing about belonging and about human connection, as you know, is that the more you do it, not only does it ripple out, like it is a completely correlated definition of like the likelihood that you are going to be happy and healthy in your life, like direct correlation between the, like, which is just like.

Smiley Poswolsky: Like, literally like, like all of the research, the most important thing when you get to the age of 80 is what was the quality of relationships at the age of 50

Judd Shaw: for the listener. We will, um, get all those references, uh, in the show notes, uh, to direct. You know, for that workbook and, and other resources. And that being said, um, I want to now as a leader in my company, create a stronger sense of belonging.

Judd Shaw: And there are some tools [00:21:00] to which you just pointed out that help happen. What are some of these green or red flags? That a leader can use to know whether I am creating the sense of belonging, or am I moving away from it? Great question,

Smiley Poswolsky: Judd. Um, yeah, I, I call them shifts, like shifting from one mindset to another, because I think that, um, I don’t, I don’t love red flags, because I think that sometimes a red flag is like a green flag in disguise, right?

Smiley Poswolsky: Like, I don’t like to kind of say like, um, you get what I’m saying. Like they’re, they’re more like opportunities. But so one would, you know, uh, some shifts I like to say is like belong like a, like a, like a trap I would say that some people fall into is belonging is HR’s job. Like, okay. Like that’s culture team.

Smiley Poswolsky: That’s the chief of people. If you have a diversity, equity, inclusion, uh, director [00:22:00] team, like that’s their, that’s their work, like I’m in accounting, I’m the CFO, right. I’m in sales. I’m in data. I’m in analytics. Like I’m in operations, like belonging, like talk to them. I don’t know. Like they’re over there.

Smiley Poswolsky: And belonging is everyone’s job. Belonging is everyone’s job. It does not, you know, like, sometimes there is somebody with belonging in their title or belonging in their, their job description. And yes, they may set the strategy, the vision for how you’re, how you have a culture of belonging. But the truth of the matter is belonging is every leader’s job.

Smiley Poswolsky: Every manager’s job, every individual employee’s job, every single person where they’ve been with us for 20 years, for 10 years, for two years, for two days. Belonging and creating that openness, both for yourself to bring your full self to work, but also to receive others and to make other people feel seen [00:23:00] is your job too.

Smiley Poswolsky: And that’s a big kind of shift that I, that I, that I try to help people figure out another would be this idea that purpose is. Just company based. So I think for a long time, we’ve had this sense that kind of belonging means you identify with the company mission, the company purpose. That, to me, is a little bit of a 1.

Smiley Poswolsky: 0 framing, right? You find belonging when you match you yourself with the company, right? And what they’re trying to do. Yes, there’s some kind of true to that, but I actually think it’s reversed. I think that belonging is when a company can see the individual purposes of their people within the company mission, values and purpose.

Smiley Poswolsky: That is to say that the pendulum shifts from the company. Is it really, really important to the [00:24:00] people are really important. What do they need? What are they asking for? What are what is their mission? What is their purpose? How does this role reflect what they’re trying to do in their life? Right. That’s another big shift that I think needs to happen.

Smiley Poswolsky: Another would be like a red flag is a culture fit. So culture fit is this idea of like we’re hiring or we’re looking for people that fit in. Now, this comes from a really good place of like, we, we don’t want people here that like hate what we’re doing or think we’re don’t believe in the mission or, or don’t like what we’re selling, or if we’re making T shirts, think the T shirts are ugly and never want to wear them.

Smiley Poswolsky: Like, I get what, what culture fit where it comes from. But the problem with culture fit is we usually are hiring men for people that either look like us or think like us. [00:25:00] And that’s actually the opposite of what we want. We want people. They’re going to challenge our thinking that have new ideas, diverse backgrounds, different perspectives.

Smiley Poswolsky: Yes, they believe in the company. Sure. They can’t be like there and blowing things up, right? You know, they’re not working at the restaurant and poisoning the food. I get it. But they’re there to transform the restaurant. They’re there to make it better. They’re there to transform the culture, not culture fit culture transformation and belonging happens when people are part of the culture change the culture transformation process.

Smiley Poswolsky: It’s not just say, hey, jump on board. You know, this is how we do things. You don’t like it. Sink or swim. Sorry. Go find somebody else. Go find somewhere else to work. Those people are going to go find somebody else somewhere else to work. It’s when they say, Hey, we want you here. We embrace where you’re coming from.

Smiley Poswolsky: We want you to be part of making this place better. That creates a sensible. [00:26:00] So that’s another one. And then I would, I’ll end with, um, from, from this idea of hustle. So I think like it used to be that people thought like, Oh, you’ll find belonging when we hustle together. Like we’re in it together. You got to, you got to show up and you’ve got to work hard and you got to give 115 percent and we’re going to hustle.

Smiley Poswolsky: And because we’re hustling, you’ll find that sense of belonging.

Smiley Poswolsky: I don’t think that’s correct. I think it’s not hustle. It’s human connection. So shifting from the hustle mindset, which is like, okay, we got to move fast. We got to break things. We got to do whatever it takes to, we got to prioritize. personal connection with ourselves and connection with the team. Then people have that sense when they have that space to breathe, that space to be healthy, that space to have self care time, have self reflection time and team connection time.

Smiley Poswolsky: Not just after work, [00:27:00] right? Like, okay, you can have connection time if you go to happy hour or the team dinner that starts at 8 PM, but you can’t see your family or go exercise if you go to that dinner. But like within the work day so that there’s ample time for the connection to happen. In the morning on Monday at 10 a.

Smiley Poswolsky: m. in the team meeting in the weekly stand up on in the one on ones in onboardings in trainings in annual retreats it’s part of the employee experience that helps create a sense of belonging.

Judd Shaw: I never thought that when I was providing these opportunities to join for cocktail parties and drinks at 8 p. m. and dinners. That some of the workforce just want to go home and go to the gym and not not do that. And how do you create that within the work time to honor their life? And in the very beginning, what resonated was that I [00:28:00] had always approached my companies that customer service was not a customer service department.

Judd Shaw: Customer service was everybody’s job. And whether that be the guy in finance, HR or the customer service people who actually have that in their title. It’s everybody’s job, just like the sense of belonging. It’s not a department. It’s not a title and not a position. It’s the obligation of all of us to help create that.

Judd Shaw: That was so well said smiley. Thank you. I hadn’t thought about it in that way. And so I’m wondering. You know, you, I’ve had the honor and privilege of hearing you speak, you’ve worked with some of the world’s leading organizations and companies. What have you found [00:29:00] as like, is there a common denominator, a common block where leaders, organizations and these companies get in their own way and stop the belonging from happening?

Smiley Poswolsky: Yeah. I mean, the, the, the common block, I think if, if I, if I were to pull back, it’s people think. That they have to do this themselves. Like add that as a leader, it’s all about them. Now it’s starts with them, which is an important distinction. Like a leader sets the tone, right? If a leader is vulnerable in the meeting, if a leader says, I don’t know, or I messed that up or we got that wrong, I blew it on that.

Smiley Poswolsky: Or we made a mistake as a company and I take responsibility. That is huge for creating a sense of trust, of [00:30:00] psychological safety, of belonging, but where I think too many companies screw it up is they say, we got to get this right. And it’s 6 people sitting in a conference room, figuring it out, figuring it out the culture.

Smiley Poswolsky: When the answer is in the 600 or the 6, 000 or the people that are not in that conference room and they have it completely flipped or they do the survey. They’re like, okay, we’ll do it. So then so then the next thing is like, let’s do a survey. That’ll help us figure it out. Then they do the survey, but then they don’t even listen to the survey.

Smiley Poswolsky: Right, and they’re like, okay, well, we, uh, the few people that answered the survey, these people agree with us. We’ll just, we did the survey. We’ll go with, we’ll go with what we thought in the first place. It’s like, well, there’s 5 or 10 people that presented really kind of critical, uh, Important feedback and good ideas.

Smiley Poswolsky: Follow up with those people. Continue the conversation with those people, have those people on the committee to figure it out. [00:31:00] Then you’re getting somewhere. So I think like the biggest block is they have it flipped of thinking that it’s the responsibility of just the people that are the most senior to figure it out.

Smiley Poswolsky: It’s the, it’s the responsibility of the people who are most senior to set the tone and then have everybody else be part of figuring it out.

Judd Shaw: I, I think that the more I’ve learned about it, the more I recognize that when I was trying to drive the belonging. Uh, surface problems, uh, give feedback, uh, raise your hand when you have an idea, uh, don’t be afraid to come to us with X, Y, Z.

Judd Shaw: And then I’m like, well, why isn’t that happening? And I realize You really have to give that psychological safety in a form of permission.

Smiley Poswolsky: Yes.

Judd Shaw: And that form of permission comes from when I As the leader, I’m able to show that I can be vulnerable, that I can [00:32:00] say that I’m having a really tough time and I need the help of my, my team to sort of carry me.

Judd Shaw: I’m struggling a little bit to acknowledge that I made a mistake, but I learned from it. But, you know, would have liked had I known what I know now and then I would have done it differently. Just showing the humanness side of my leadership gives permission for others to be human. In the company.

Smiley Poswolsky: So well said, Judd.

Smiley Poswolsky: Yeah, and it’s the littlest things. Right? Like, sometimes that’s the other thing I think with belonging that, that, that messes people up a little bit. Sometimes it’s those little things of saying you made a mistake, of saying you don’t know, of having those one on ones and having an open door or office hours where people can approach you, or taking Q& A during, uh, during the team meeting or the company, uh, you know, the, the, the company wide.

Smiley Poswolsky: Meeting and and and taking real hard hitting [00:33:00] questions, right? Or or little acts of kindness. Whereas a leader, you remember the birthdays of your of your of your teammates names or or their kids, their kids names or or what’s happening in their lives like people. The smallest things are what people take away.

Smiley Poswolsky: Like you can have a belonging strategy. You can put you belong on the walls of, of your office. And that’s all well and good. What matters most is how you talk to, right? What matters most is how you talk to people, how you treat them. It’s those little moments, those little acts of kindness, those little acts of being seen and being heard and making people thinking people feel like they matter.

Smiley Poswolsky: That people are going to remember.

Judd Shaw: I think that also starts at least immediately on boarding, you know, at my firm, when you are hired, you’ll receive this preference sheet that says your favorite soda, your favorite [00:34:00] candy, uh, your birthday, you know, something you would want people to know what’s your bucket list, whatever.

Judd Shaw: And now, and I, I, there’s a book called the power of moments. And it talks about John Deere, who created this first day experience. And I tried to replicate that because I thought, wow, that’s so true. How many people on their first day of work get shown their desks, you know, Hey, if you have any questions, just go ask Jimmy.

Judd Shaw: And they’re sitting in the front of the, you know, all day, kind of feeling just lost. And, you know, and so I want you to come down, sit at your desk, And I want you to come into the office and there’s going to be someone who specifically sat there to make sure that they’re there to greet you. Sit you down where your workstation is and you’ve already have 25 post its from your team members wishing you well and luck on your first day.

Judd Shaw: You have your favorite candy there and maybe a favorite soda. We’ve taken the time to note these things that you’re saying are your [00:35:00] favorites and giving you a little piece of connection. And then. I particularly give the permission for team members to that person to go and speak to everybody in the company for 20 minutes.

Judd Shaw: So your first day, you’re not thrown into the wolves and jumping at the work. We’re creating that belonging first, the ability so that, you know, and we purposely have these named things that are fun cards, but really it’s so that when someone else goes to someone’s desk and they forget a name, they, they have somebody latch on to, and there are these ways of trying to make sure that that first person, that that employee on that first day walks away.

Judd Shaw: Goes home and says, I’m in the right place, and then we’ll start training you on your job role.

Smiley Poswolsky: I love that, Judd. I love that. Yeah, like, I, [00:36:00] I, I think that’s beautiful. Um, I think that, you know, I often talk about with onboarding, right? The point of onboarding is not to deliver. Information. That’s what people think.

Smiley Poswolsky: The point of onboarding is like, here’s what you need to know how to work. Here’s how to set up your email. Here’s how to use all of our tools. Here’s how to do the folders. Here’s how we store files. Here’s reports and HR software, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The point of onboarding is, did you make a new friend?

Smiley Poswolsky: Like, did you connect with somebody on your team or not on your team, but in your organization that, like, you can have lunch with? Or if you’re a virtual team, like that, you can hop on, on zoom or teams and have a call or virtual coffee, like somebody that you just want to kick it with, that is the point of onboarding, right?

Smiley Poswolsky: It’s not just, Hey, here’s all the stuff that you have [00:37:00] to do. Here’s all the work you need to do, or here’s how to do everything. It’s did you make a new friend? I mean, employees have a best friend at work are 7 times more engaged in their jobs. And like when you do something like the ritual that you were talking about, like there, no one’s going to be best friends right away, but they’re going to say, wow, this posted wrote me this posted.

Smiley Poswolsky: I’m going to go say thank you. Then we’re going to start talking. Turns out we both love pickleball. Turns out we both have daughters that are the same age, whatever. Like those connections matter. Like that’s where these things start. You’re creating by that post it example, more inroads to potential connection, rather than shutting it down and putting someone in their office, their cubicle, their desk and saying, good luck.

Smiley Poswolsky: You’re saying, Hey, there are 25 people that are here for you or, or that are, that are open to chatting.

Judd Shaw: We, we tell people bring your best version to work, bring yourself to work. And what I found through my framework, the [00:38:00] connection cure is that often some people don’t even know what that is. And in order to bring your best self to work, you need to know what your best self is.

Judd Shaw: You know, what does that look like? And and I’m wondering, you know, have you explored how people how people can tap into their true self? You know, if we’re asking our team for a sense of belonging. And to help create that sense of belonging, how do we help those team members who don’t even know what that looks like?

Smiley Poswolsky: Yeah. I think one of the exercises I try to run people through is kind of coming up with a personal definition of what belonging is, because it’s going to be very different to different people. Right. Um, and, and I think what I encourage people to reflect on is kind of a time in your life. And I usually start with outside of work [00:39:00] where you felt that high sense of belonging.

Smiley Poswolsky: Like, what was that and also recognize in presence that that sometimes people have not never really felt that way in their life. And that’s okay, too. But like, it might be, um, you know, from sports or or or school or college. It might be with family or in an institution or church or synagogue or some sort of community group work.

Smiley Poswolsky: Um, what was present there? Why did you feel that way? What? What? What? What happened for you? What? What were you able to do? And that helps people kind of get a sense of kind of that personal definition. But I also think it’s important to say, and also just will note that. Belonging will change over time, right?

Smiley Poswolsky: Like it’s not like your definition stays, stays static, right? You know, as you get older or have Children, a family or move or in a different part of your life, or if you are sick or someone else in your life is sick or going or you’re grieving or you’re going through a mental health challenge like these things all evolve and change and that’s [00:40:00] okay.

Smiley Poswolsky: That’s part of this. I will say this, though. Sometimes people will say in my work, and I bet you’ve encountered this as well, Well, what, I don’t want to bring my full self to work. Like I want to, like, they’re like, I want to work. I’m here to work. I don’t want to talk about my children. I don’t want to talk about what I’m reading or listening or my politics or, um, what I want for the world or who I really am.

Smiley Poswolsky: I, I frankly, like, I’ll talk about it with my family. I don’t even want to talk about that with my family, like, you know, like at work, I want to work. And you know what I say? I actually say, I mean, I, the research will show that the more open you are, the better you’re more, you’re going to like your job and the better you’re going to perform, but that person doesn’t have to, if you want to skip or pass, that’s okay, but what you don’t get to do.

Smiley Poswolsky: Is create the culture where other people don’t get to be their full self, [00:41:00] which is a huge distinction. So if, if, you know, if you want to skip, and I think it’s important to kind of give this permission, like if you want to pass, if you want to skip, you’re like, not today. I’m really not feeling that great.

Smiley Poswolsky: Or I don’t want to talk about, you know, my mother who’s sick or something going on in my life at work with like, You know, Doug in in HR, you know, like, sorry, Doug, I don’t want to talk about that with you. Okay, that’s cool. But you don’t get to create the environment where other people don’t feel safe or empowered to share.

Smiley Poswolsky: That’s not okay. You can pass, but other people might want to share for good reason. And that’s really important. So we build a culture where people feel welcome and seen and heard. And occasionally that means, you know, skipping an exercise or not being full, full, you know, I don’t think we have to be our full, authentic, vulnerable selves all the time.

Smiley Poswolsky: And that’s really important to present,

Judd Shaw: right? Yeah. [00:42:00] That is such a great distinction because it’s also in a sense of belonging, honoring that person’s boundaries that they need to maybe even protect that true self. Exactly. And so if I ask Jimmy, what are you doing for vacation? Jimmy says, Don’t worry about it.

Judd Shaw: I don’t want to talk about it. I’m not telling you like, Oh yeah. Okay. But if I want to talk about where I go on vacation with Amy, like that’s okay too.

Smiley Poswolsky: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, and maybe Jimmy doesn’t want to talk about it today, but maybe next week or maybe in a month or two, you know, who knows?

Smiley Poswolsky: Like that’s okay. Like that’s part of belonging I think is really, it’s almost like, um, a little bit of belong. Belonging requires a little bit of. Being flexible, adapting, recognizing that people and humans are unique. They have very [00:43:00] different needs and those needs change constantly. And the more that we are able to kind of have this like fluidity around it.

Smiley Poswolsky: And not be so rigid and not be kind of, well, this is not how we do things here. Right. And being more open, the better that we’re going to create a foster that sense of belonging,

Judd Shaw: you know, Smiley, um, within that workplace belonging toolkit, that’s a sense of a framework, isn’t it?

Smiley Poswolsky: Uh, framework, practical tips, reflections.

Smiley Poswolsky: Yeah. Some new ideas that I’m trying out some worksheets. It’s, it’s, it’s kind of what I want people to kind of. Have a bunch of ideas for things to try when they look at it. They’re not going to pick all of them. But some things, a menu of options to choose from that really speak to them or speak to their organization or their team, depending on what they’re working on.

Judd Shaw: Smiley, does an organization that’s getting bigger in terms of people, is it more difficult for that sense of [00:44:00] belonging to change? Set in or does it get easier?

Smiley Poswolsky: I don’t think that there is a, uh, uh, find one, one single deaf, uh, answer to that question. I think it really depends. What I have found is that, you know, a lot of companies that start small or kind of start in kind of one location or one office, one headquarters find that they can build this strong sense of culture and belonging because everybody knows each other, right?

Smiley Poswolsky: The second you get to this. Situation where people don’t know, not only just each other, but don’t know, like almost anyone else at the company or don’t even see other people at the company on a regular basis, it becomes a lot more challenging. Right. Um, but what I found that seems to work is recognizing that you’re going to have kind of this continuity of like the big picture culture of the organization, but allowing kind of individual teams or individual locations if the team is across the country or global to [00:45:00] have their own kind of mini cultures and rituals and traditions as well.

Smiley Poswolsky: So, yes, we kind of have these standards or this big picture sense of what belonging means. At the company but within that people have the freedom, the autonomy, the creativity to kind of shape what that looks like for them because especially if you’re a global company like things are going to look different in India than they do in Brazil than they do in Kansas City like that’s just.

Smiley Poswolsky: Facts, right? And that’s good. That’s a good thing, right? And we’re gonna have some things that are company wide. So kind of encouraging people to kind of come up with those own traditions, those own habits, those own rituals that work for them based on where they are,

Judd Shaw: you know, being a Workplace belonging expert and studying and thought leader in the future of work, remote, hybrid, also big change in the workplace over the last couple of years.

Judd Shaw: Anything that you see in a sense of belonging that [00:46:00] differentiates from what happens in the physical presence of the office to the hybrid remote workplace. In other words, does that belonging break or get more difficult?

Smiley Poswolsky: Yeah. The biggest thing that I say that it is, is that it hybrid is not, um, where we work, it’s how we connect.

Smiley Poswolsky: So I think in the new landscape, we have to be more intentional wherever we’re working. Because I think what happens is people assume now, Oh, if we go into the office, like human connection, check, we’re good. We did it. But like, that’s actually not the case because people are coming into the office now and they’re still wearing noise canceling headphones on zoom, not talking to each other.

Smiley Poswolsky: It’s like, why did they, why did I just go in the office? So like what, so like there has to be a point of people going in where we’re designing for human connection. And then on the other side of it, just because we’re remote. Or just because we’re hybrid doesn’t mean, okay, it’s only work [00:47:00] time. Forget human connection.

Smiley Poswolsky: We’ll do human connection in six months. When we get together at the annual retreat, no, we have to do human connection on our, our weekly zoom meeting. We have to have one on ones with our people. Virtually, we have to connect with ourselves, even if we’re not seeing other people throughout the work day.

Smiley Poswolsky: Like, so it’s about designing for connection everywhere. So I do think it’s become harder. But I think it’s, um, it, it means that we have to be more intentional about it. It’s not just going to happen. We have to design for human connection at every stage, wherever we’re working from.

Judd Shaw: I wonder if the companies that find the remote workers.

Judd Shaw: To be essentially, to your point, one of these subgroups, subtribes within the bigger organization and having them a sense of belonging amongst themselves for remote workers to be able to communicate with other remote workers [00:48:00] about what it’s like working remote.

Smiley Poswolsky: Yeah, I love that. I love that. I love, I think that that’s really I think that’s a great idea.

Smiley Poswolsky: I think what’s interesting is like you remote a lot of remote workers that will now say like they would never go back to a job that’s full time in person. So they very much value the flexibility. Um, it’s a big part of like, how they define their, their meaning, their purpose and their quality of work.

Smiley Poswolsky: But they’re also reporting record high levels of disconnection. So both of those things are true. Right? So it’s. It’s one thing to be like, I love the flexible work and I’m a big proponent of flexibility. I think it’s, you know, incredible. And there are a lot of people that frankly do not need to go into an office every single day, depending on their role.

Smiley Poswolsky: But we also have to make sure that those people feel that sense of connection and have that team, regardless of where they’re working from.

Judd Shaw: Yeah, totally agree with that. You know, Smiley, you do so much for the workplace [00:49:00] and for everyone who benefits from that sense of belonging in a company in organization setting.

Judd Shaw: But I’m curious, how does Smiley Best authentically connect with himself.

Smiley Poswolsky: Oh, that’s such a great question. Thanks for asking that. Um, you know, what’s interesting is I think some people think that, you know, well, I am an extrovert, like I’m very high energy. I love people. I’m a, as you are a keynote speaker.

Smiley Poswolsky: I love being in a room with people. It gives me a rush. Like I have a gift of connecting with people and just being very. You know, an outgoing person, but how I find belonging connection often is solo. and is on a run, uh, is taking a walk by myself, is just sitting in the sun, is spacing out. is just thinking and, and, and, and having that sense of just like [00:50:00] time by myself, which is very interesting.

Smiley Poswolsky: So like, it’s not that, that is a big piece. And then I’d say like in terms of, and then very like deep one on one connection. Is really nourishing for me, which is like the, the opposite of being at a 500 person event or thousand person event, but just having a conversation with someone over a good meal and just getting into it and feeling really seen.

Smiley Poswolsky: Um, so, so I love that kind of solo time. I love to journal. I love to just kind of think and, and relax and, and be on my own and, and have that, that kind of freedom.

Judd Shaw: You remind me of how incredibly important it is to remember that a sense of belonging includes a sense of belonging with ourselves, that we feel heard ourselves, that we see ourself, that we value ourself, that we have a voice.

Judd Shaw: for reminding me that [00:51:00] sense of belonging isn’t just with others. It’s also deeply with yourself.

Judd Shaw: Smiley, I cannot thank you for your time and your energy and your smile and your passion. It is really, I feel the sense of belonging to the, to the community in which I met you. And it’s because of guys and gals that put themselves out there to allow others to feel that. Thank you for being such a, a really a lightning rod to spark those connections in every room you enter.

Judd Shaw: I so appreciate you.

Smiley Poswolsky: Thank you, Jed. I appreciate you too. And thank you for having me on. And thank you for the work that you’re doing in the human connection space. It’s really, really, really important.

Judd Shaw: Thank you so much. I want to extend my deepest gratitude to you. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, [00:52:00] please follow us on your favorite platform or share this episode with a friend.

Judd Shaw: You can also follow me on Instagram at Judge Shaw Official. A special thank you to personal injury law firm, Judge Shaw Injury Law, for their support in helping us bring this podcast to life. Remember friends, authenticity isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being real. It’s about embracing our vulnerabilities, celebrating our strengths and owning our stories until next time.