Out-Care Your Competition with Riaz Meghji

[00:00:00] Welcome to Behind the Armor, where we deep dive into the heart of what matters. I’m your host, Judd Shaw, adventurer, storyteller, agent of change, and speaker on authenticity and human connection. Join me as we explore the complexities of human connection, featuring theorists, scientists, and speakers. Our mission is simple, to inspire you to reclaim your true self and create genuine connections with others.

Join me as we lay down our armor, live by it. Hello, you beautiful people. And thanks for tuning in today. We’re talking to Riaz Menji. Riaz is an international human connection keynote speaker, author, and coach. Riaz is also an accomplished broadcaster with 17 years of television hosting experience, interviewing experts on all topics, including current affairs, sports, entertainment, and Politics and business.

Today, Riaz has committed his career to uncovering the key [00:01:00] habits of human connection that build extraordinary relationships. Let’s uncover what’s behind the armor with Riaz. Riaz, my friend, welcome to the show. It’s happening, man. I, uh, thank you. Thank you for the invite. I’m excited to be here. I’m excited for you with what you’re creating, man.

Thank you. It’s, it’s, it’s good to hear you. Good to see you. You know, we both share a love of storytelling and if you don’t mind for the audience, I’d like to share the story of how we first met. We were out in, I knew of you in the human connection space, as being a real thought leader in there. And, uh, I’m out in Arizona, in December, at an event, and you know, this guy gets up and he’s asking a question, but in a form of making sure that everybody’s part of the question [00:02:00] and everybody’s part of the answer.

And I was like, I gotta meet this guy. And I, you know, tapped on. You, you on the, on the back end of that event, and I introduced myself and I found at the end of that conversation, there was this connection. It was the way you were engaged in the conversation and, and the gestures and your words. And I later realized that I’ve come to know that how you approach these conversations is with such great intentionality.

And I never forgot the first time we met. Thank you for that, man. Thank you. I, uh, I really appreciate that. You know, it’s, um, it’s, it’s really unique when you get the chance to meet somebody. I know we’re a part of the same speaker community and, uh, you never know, like how the conversation could start, where the journey could go.

And it’s just, yeah, it was a really comfortable space with you and you walked up smiling [00:03:00] and I knew I was like, this, This is a connection guy. Cause I knew your name beforehand and I was just smiling that we had the chance to connect and look, it created this opportunity for us to be here today. You don’t realize before we get into how you make every conversation count.

I wanted to go back to learning. How did you become the expert in the human connection space and in internationally renowned keynote speaker? In other words, what brought you to learn this? I would just credit this. To the notion of staying curious longer. And when you think about the average conversation, any of us could have in a personal setting and a professional setting, uh, things move at a rapid pace and being an interviewer for a living.

So for context, for those that are just getting familiar with who I am, I worked in television for 20 years as a broadcast television interviewer and host, and then transition full time to the speaking world. I was [00:04:00] always curious of what is one thing I’m going to learn, whether I have five minutes with somebody, whether I have 50 minutes with somebody, what is one thing that I can find that is impressive about this person’s journey, that I can spotlight, that I can learn from, that I can connect with.

And it was just staying curious longer because somebody could say something. And I think one of the biggest challenges we face, and this comes from a pure intention to connect is rushed relatability. So if we were to meet. Transcribed And you were to tell me, Hey, you know what? I work in the connection space.

I used to work in personal injury law. Now, you know, I’m focusing on connection and I’m going to jump in right away. Hey, I work in connection to you. I’ve stolen the moment away from what you were about to share. So I think just the simple starting point of staying curious longer. About what can I discover?

What could I learn? What could I do to ignite an emotion in this person? So they start smiling about a moment that I was able to remind them about that they lived simply by asking the question. And I [00:05:00] loved, I loved doing it on television. I love doing it on from the stage and the Q and A’s, uh, that you have with audiences.

And it’s just. The beginner’s mindset. I think that’s it. Beginner’s mindset. That reminds me, if I break down our interaction, my experience with you doing that, I found that I actually went up to you because I thought that you had the answer to the information I was looking for. But I’m making first an introduction to you and you stayed curious enough in that conversation to wait for me to give the intro of how I know of you and who I am to get to the thing that said, you know, another words, you knew that through that conversation, it resulted in you saying, how can I support you?

And I was like, yes, I, you know, you know, this guy, can you hook me up with a contact, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But you [00:06:00] stayed in that conversation enough to get to that understanding that I approach you in sense of a needed help. Hmm. And the, and the, Thank you for acknowledging that. I think there’s two interesting dynamics.

If I’m going back to that first conversation, it’s so quick to jump in. If you’re a speaker, if you’re a leader, if you’re a friend that you want to just be there to help. But the question I always have is, am I the right person to help? So by staying curious longer in any situation, no matter what your subject matter of what your scenario might be.

I think those questions to understand how can I prompt before I prescribe, because if I just jumped to, Oh yeah, I just talked to this person and then that person would be like, why did you send this person to me? I don’t think I can help them. I have been an inefficient resource for both yours and their time.

So I think in that moment, one, there’s a nice genuine report. We both have being people that ask questions for a living. And then two, Clarity [00:07:00] that I believe I did have a resource that, you know, I could direct you to and I’m going to shout out that resource. His name is John Rader, who’s great on the social media side of things, um, helping amplify the voices of speakers.

I’m glad these things are happening because one, I believe generosity always wins. But two, I have observed that in the speaking community, this is a beautiful community of abundance where you want to see each other win. And even if we’re in the same space, there have been sometimes I’ve been shortlisted for events and I ask, Hey, who am I up against?

And I will literally say that person is phenomenal. Hire them. And the client will be like, what? And I’m like, hire them. If you want X, Y, Z, I believe that person will serve you better. If you want to create a shared emotional experience with connection, and if you feel there’s an emotional absence with your leaders, I’m your person, but maybe just hire us both.

And you’ve won on both levels. And I think that’s the beautiful part of this industry, uh, from, from doing a job interviews, uh, everybody wins. [00:08:00] Hmm. So as you pointed out, you, you have been in communications for most of your life, right? Um, in, in, in interviewing, in tele, television broadcasting, uh, I mean, some of the interviews you’ve given are some of the biggest names in the world that people would know of.

Um, did you find yourself to be a natural communicator? And You know, can someone who’s not learn the same skill set and way to approach conversations and communication the way you naturally can. Well, I mean, thank you for the compliment. Uh, I was very rigid in the beginning. So for context, I got a finance degree.

I came from a business background entering the realm of communication. So I didn’t go to broadcast journalism school. I just looked at the idea of what if I pursued a career path [00:09:00] that was fun, that you could connect with interview and learn from people for a living. So when I got in, my producers would say to me, they’d look at the questions.

And I, you know, I remember one of the first conversations I had with a producer at MTV Canada, where I first got my break in television and they would vet my questions and they’d say. Wow, man, like kudos. Did a lot of research on this subject. These questions are really thoughtful, but here’s the thing.

Where’s the fun here? Like, this is so clinical what you’re doing. Where’s the fun? What, what is going to ignite this person? What is going to make them smile? What, where’s the emotion that’s going to come out of this experience? Because as we both know, in for sharing information is transactional. When you get to the emotional part, And, and can create breakthroughs.

That’s where the transformation happens in the conversations. So I think having good mentors in the beginning that would push me in a positive way that would productively disrupt my approach to [00:10:00] focus on the emotional mindset. What are the stories you can explore? What are the questions you can ask to unlock to invite reflection?

Because. Self reflection precedes self discovery and get that person in a reflective mode. So getting in the idea of, yeah, what is fun for this person? What are they obsessed with without outside of their profession? And when you can light them up with those types of things, you surprise them, delight them, and it took reps.

To get comfortable because it’s a risk. There’s no guarantee that person is going to open up. You could have a conception or preconceived notion of who that celebrity is, how they are, and maybe they’re having a bad day and they’re more reserved. And you’re thinking, Oh, man, my ideas fell flat. Um, the idea of being okay with failure and rejection, and then just keep trying, keep trying as an interviewer and much like a speaker, getting the reps in and get comfortable where we’re at a lower capacity Like a mental capacity of all the things you’re thinking about doing to connect with the audience and then just [00:11:00] being so when someone like yourself asks an important question, you can really stay in the moment with them because we can script our interviews.

But if I interview subjects. Bring something up that wasn’t in the research. That’s new. That’s fresh. That’s on their mind. I think as an interviewer, as a leader, as a speaker, having the ability to over prepare to improvise was a game changer for me to go from that rigid, awkward communicator to someone that just leaned into the moment knowing there’s no guarantee.

But if the intention is pure, you’re giving yourself a higher probability of a breakthrough or a beautiful connection. That is so good and I want to unpack some of that. You know, I join you in a shout out to our friend, John, who, you know, he is an incredibly talented guy in social media and, and did obviously, um, joins our connection.

Uh, and. In my, in my framework for authenticity, to get people to [00:12:00] understand how they can become more authentic, I use the connection cure, conscious awareness, understanding why we’re showing up that way, renewing our relationships and expanding our connections. And I’m wondering what basis, what foundation or framework may you use in helping create work cultures that build extraordinary relationships?

A quick framework is a three question framework to understand, especially in this era of hybrid work where we have a lot of remote workers. You may be building connections from a distance. Culture can crumble if we’re not checking in with people. I think there’s three questions we all ask ourselves. The first time we meet someone and if we’re intentionally thinking about these questions, other people, strangers, as they enter your culture, maybe asking those questions are, do you care about me?[00:13:00]

Are you listening to me and can I trust you? And I think how we show up and care for our people, not just professionally, but personally knowing that I’m here to support your growth here at the company, but what’s going on in your life, your family, what do you need? Maybe there’s something mental health wise, which is a big conversation that’s being had.

Am I listening to you? Is this person listening to me? This is what I believe one of the key questions people are asking. And I think, especially when there are sensitive, awkward or difficult conversations, how can we lead with a sense of staying curious longer and acknowledge acknowledgement before rebuttal?

Because when there are polarizing opinions, it’s easier. Our knee jerk reaction is jumping in. Well, no, no, this is why I disagree. But if we acknowledge that person and show them and get curious of like, how did you come to take this perspective? How much thought went into this and understand, hey, this is the two of us versus the [00:14:00] challenge instead of me versus you, I think listening and validating that person is so crucial in the beginning that ultimately will begin to build that trust because in the long game, I think trust is built through, um, competence.

Can can you make the important decisions? Do you have the skill set to navigate uncertainty? I think it’s the accessibility. Hey, I’m here if you need me. Uh, it’s the proactive care of Hey, I’m reaching out to you to check in. You don’t just care about me as a name or number. You care about me as a person.

But overall, just the consistency that that person is there over time. This isn’t just a one quick hit check in and then they’re non existent. So do you care about me? Are you listening to me and can I trust you? I think is a great starting framework to build these relationships at work. Love that. And it sounds what, what struck me about it.

Uh, was that underneath all of those was the [00:15:00] psychological safety for the space to even have the conversation. Absolutely. When you, um, are, are doing a keynote and, um, I’ve had the great honor and privilege of hearing you speak. What would you want? Your key takeaways. What do you want the audience to walk away learning on your keynote on human connection?

I’m going to answer this in two ways. Number one, my thought going into any keynote, and this is the macro perspective, is how to encourage them to break out of autopilot mode with how they show up in conversations when it comes to curiosity, When it comes to listening, vulnerability, empathy and appreciation, and I’ll give them a framework of ideas on how they do that effectively and give them a toolkit number two.

And this is the micro perspective for every keynote. [00:16:00] The discovery work for me is so crucial to understand the key objectives and try to identify three key objectives of how I can close the gap where they at right now. And this is the conversations with the event planner. This is the conversations with stakeholders from different departments that will be in the room.

Where is the gap with connection? What are the points of friction that exist for them and the barriers that are blocking them from getting their relationships? And above all asking them. What makes this an experience that people will talk about five years from now, not just tomorrow, not just next week.

But do you remember that time I was in the room and I heard judge speaking on stage? The guy gave me the gift of this experience of how I can do this. And that customization can only be answered after the discovery work. So is there a framework I work with? Absolutely. But more importantly, how does that framework close the gap of where they are and where they want to be with the relationships that exist in their work culture?

So interesting. And [00:17:00] I, you use the word experience and now I realized that your point of having every conversation count their experiences in and of it themselves. Like my meeting you was an experience. It was all in the heart of a conversation, but yet it was still an experience. Yeah. Of it that way.

Thank you for, for showing me that. Well, thanks for highlighting that, you know, thanks for saying that, because the reason I do this work now as a speaker, and this is why in the discovery call, if somebody reaches out and is interested in collaborating, I want to be on that first call before the agent, because my most important thing is understanding what they want to create.

If they want someone on a stage that can just share research, Key ideas, maybe a framework, I say to them, that is phenomenal. Let me suggest three speakers that can serve your cause. But if you want to create, I believe my opportunity to serve is when leaders tell me we feel like there’s an emotional [00:18:00] absence with our leaders, that they’re so busy, they’re so overwhelmed.

They’re so inundated. At some point they got desensitized and they forgot how to feel. And if their goal is they want to create a shared emotional experience, my goal, Judd, walking into that room is how do I move this audience? How do I take them on an emotional journey through storytelling, throw in the research, but above all, make this feel to your word and like an authentic conversation where we’re just in it.

There could be. 10 people in the room, 100 people in a room, a thousand people in the room, but they feel this is one to one and this guy is in it with me speaking and understanding what I go through on a daily basis. So, um, I want to, I want to play a game with you. Are you ready? You want Monday? Okay. I follow you on Instagram and, and as you pointed out, we use the same guy to help us, uh, Amplify our voice.

Um, and your, your handle, I [00:19:00] don’t know it offhand. Just at Riaz Meggi. There you go. Can you spell that for the audience? Very important question. Yeah. At R I A Z or Z uh, M as in mom, E G. H J I. That’s the trickiest part of the game. You got to spot Riaz Maggi. I know it’s tricky, but, uh, Hey, it is what it is.

Right. Okay. So, and mine is, uh, Judge Shaw official and, uh, and I noted that when I’m, when your posts come up on my thread, they’re always these like hacks to deepening conversations and And what I love about your post is they’re really like actionable things. They’re like, here’s three things. And I’m like, ah, I’m going to do that next time.

So I want to do this. I want to, for our audience and, and, and by the way, this is amazing. Oh, thanks for getting the book. Yeah, man. [00:20:00] Absolutely. Absolutely. And really, uh, every conversation counts. Uh, the book is really, I think it shows you. How you are actually one conversation away from changing your life every time.

Okay, so I’m walking up and, um, I’m at, you know, I’m at the airport and I’m sitting at a hamburger place waiting for my plane and I want to strike up conversation at the person who’s actually sharing a table with me. What are some ways, uh, to do that to start conversations right now? I recognize not everybody’s in the mood at the airport to have a conversation and talk using any, you know, Even though even how I wanted to come up to you and have a conversation What are some ways to break down barriers for the people who want to strike up conversations?[00:21:00]

Mm. So if you’re in an airport or any random scenario and you want to strike up a conversation, I think it’s important number one to read the room. I think about in the elevator too. I mean, how awkward those scenarios are of do people want to engage? So I think the starting point of reading the room is to listen with your eyes.

And if I see somebody sitting at the table and if they’ve got air pods in and they’re looking down at their phone or they’re eating their food or reading a book, they’re doing the activity that’s serving their purpose right now. I probably wouldn’t engage with that moment because they’re already activated in what they want to do if they are sitting at that table and and this is what I admire the most when you see that in an airport where they could just be sitting in a state of just calmness of just being, uh, I would listen with my eyes and look if there are any clues.

What are they wearing? Is it a pop of color? Is it a sports team? Uh, but if they’re just sitting, um, Uh, as themselves without a device, distracting them. I [00:22:00] think a simple question is one, pick up on the clues that you could see right away, or two, Hey, where are you heading? And open up of an intent of what, what, what their goal is.

And then, uh, listen for their response. And if they open up with a smile saying, Hey, you know what? I’m heading to New York city. Um, I’m, I’m actually going to be on a podcast with this guy, judge Shaw, who’s launching this thing on connection. Boom. They’ve given me context for a thread to follow. Tell me how’d you, how’d you get booked on the context?

Like, what do you speak on? It’s a game of follow the leader, but if they’re opening up and just being like, yeah, I’m heading home to Indiana. I’ll give another opportunity of, Oh, cool. You know, did, did you grow up in Indiana? I’ll try and get the context of, you know, what, what, what their origin is and what’s going on, but if they’re giving me one word answers, I’ll read that too.

I read that energy. Cause some people will engage. Some people don’t want to engage. And I think that’s the important part. It [00:23:00] there’s no guarantee it’ll be reciprocated. So I think listening with your eyes to start, are there clues I can pick up on? Is there a compliment I could give that person of, Hey, I love your smile.

I’ve been at the airport where I’m just sitting there and I’ve had employees at the airport come up and they just, man, look at this hair. And I start smiling, they’re like, do you dye that? I’m like, nah, I just, I was really stressed out as a teenager and it all went great at an early age and then we start laughing, right?

And she’s like, Oh, I wish my husband had this hair. And I was like, Oh, was you, you know, how long you’ve been married and try and get a backstory and put it back on them and like, have a, have a fun exchange. Cause you know, in the speaking world, it’s a lonely business. So if you can spark up these conversations at the airport and share a bit of humanity, it’s great, but listen, I don’t get offended if someone isn’t feeling it.

And I appreciate the fact they could be in a space where they’re like, they just need to decompress too. So listening with her eyes, giving them a compliment, But reading the room too, that if they don’t give that energy back, it’s okay. Let it go and try it [00:24:00] again. Next time. Love that. Listen with your eyes and, and to your point, you know, I’m more of a conversation sparker, but if the impression is they’re not ready or, or, It’s not the time for that conversation.

I don’t take that personally either. And, you know, anchoring on our story, there were a lot of people trying to talk to a lot of people that were at the moment that there was a break, like everybody. Break 10 minutes, uh, go bathroom and coffee. We’ll be back here. That’s not the time for me to try to squeeze in the conversation.

If forces, I’m like, there’s other people saying hi to people into your point. Part of that conversation was recognizing that there was a time and place for me to be able to come up to you, capture your attention, but also honors the fact that you’re having all these mini conversations with everybody else too.

Yeah, this is a great [00:25:00] point. Honor their priority and their reality. Like, you’ve given me the example of the airport. I’m going to give you a scenario that happened recently where I was actually nervous to engage with this person. So for context. I’m a huge professional wrestling fan, huge into WWE. I got reconnected with it in the pandemic.

And, uh, like I’m going to WrestleMania this year. My wife is like, are you having a midlife crisis? And I was like, no, this is amazing. I love this storytelling. So at the beginning of this year, I was coming home from, um, uh, a speaking event and the broadcast SmackDown. Was in Vancouver, Vancouver is home for me and I was connecting through Denver and it was at the end of the day and I was just kind of tired and just, you know, hopping onto the flight.

And as I’m hopping onto the flight, I was like, man, there’s a lot of muscly dudes on this plane. And I was like, Oh, wait a minute. These are the wrestlers going to Vancouver for the broadcast tomorrow. [00:26:00] I was like, no way. So then I’m looking at the seats and I was like, Oh, there’s Austin theory. Uh, there’s Corey Graves, the announcer.

And then I’m like, okay, am I going to end up sitting beside one of these guys? And then I end up sitting beside, and if anybody watches WWE, uh, Jimmy Uso. Who is I, he’s connected to, to the rocks found. So I’m like, I can’t believe I’m sitting beside Jimmy Uso. Like, this is crazy. I start texting my wife.

Cause she knows, and my wife sits at WWE now. She watches it with me. She’s like, I get why you love this. She loves RuPaul’s drag race. She’s like, this is straight guy drag. I’m like, this is straight guy drag, this is what it is, but it’s fun. So, uh, I’m sitting beside Jimmy Uso and I’m like, I just look at him and I was like, dude, Thanks for making me smile again.

And he had his shades on and he just kind of looks up at me and he’s like, huh? And I said, I mean, look, I reconnected with my love of WWE in, um, during the pandemic loved with the storyline you guys [00:27:00] had with Sammy Zane, who was a Canadian wrestler. I just want to say thank you. And then he started smiling and I just said, look, I want to respect this space too.

Cause you probably have a lot of people coming up to you. I’m going to be sitting beside you on this flight. If you want me to just shut the F up, that’s totally cool. But I just respect what you do. And I’m like, I’m so curious about your, your lifestyle. Like you guys must always be on the road. And then he opens up about this story about, he’s like, dude, I’ve been wrestling for, you know, over 10 years.

I got into it. My kids were three. This is the part nobody sees. I’m always on a flight. I’m flying from Florida. To Vancouver to be on this broadcast for 60 seconds tomorrow night. And then I’m flying to the next city. People think this is a glamorous life, but it’s not. And then there was this connection.

I’m like, dude, that is so fascinating because I’m coming back from a speaking gig and people don’t see the life on the road and the toll that can take on your body and your family. And I said, so how do you manage that with your family? And he started opening up about [00:28:00] that. And then he started opening up about WrestleMania last year in a moment with his brother backstage.

And then I just said to him, I was like, this is so cool. Look, man, I want to respect your space again. And I think that’s important when we’re with strangers or in a confined space and you’re engaging with somebody, giving them an out and an option is crucial. I love that. And respecting the space saying, Hey, you know what?

Uh, I enjoy what you do. Like if, if you know them, or even if you don’t, I just, you know, I just saw this on you. I love what you’re wearing. I love your smile. I just wanted to say, hi, also want to be respectful of your space. I know you could be tired. You want to do your thing. People honor that, like they respect that you’re, you’re keeping yourself accountable.

So that was the moment where it just spurred this great conversation. And I’m just smiling of. Man, that’s serendipity to love wrestling and be put beside a wrestler. And, um, yeah, now I get to go to WrestleMania next month with my wife’s boss, which is a maid with her president. So I’m like, yeah, you know, it’s, it’s [00:29:00] also, um, it’s the permission.

Of getting out of the conversation, recognizing that some of us like for you, you probably could have talked the entire flight about the wrestling. You just so amped up and so excited about it. He may need a break from it. And that, that, Oh, Hey, I want to respect is giving somebody the permission to say, you can stay in it with me, but you can also get out.

Yeah, yeah, that is that is beautifully put explicitly communicating the permission to exit that creates safety for that person of Oh, okay, they’re going to be gone in a couple minutes. They’re not just going to overwhelm me. Um, because someone may want to engage, they may want to engage in a short period, or maybe they may not want to engage.

But if they know you’ve given them permission, that creates safety. Yeah. Totally agree. The, and I want to go back to the moment when you’re the person now on the other side of the person sparking the conversation at the, at the [00:30:00] airport, because, you know, I talk about Riaz, the ripple effect, right? And the ripple effect is when we make these connections, positive and or negative, The ripple effect is real hard to measure, but exponential in impact, right?

It’s like when you walk up and the person at the Dunkin Donuts line, you’re like, Hey, what’s happening? How are you? How are you? And they get excited and now they’re smiling because you’re just making them laugh and smile, who knows? Now they’re going in the back and they’re like, Hey, she’s like, Hey, Jimmy.

You know, it’s like, it’s a ripple effect. And so I also recognize, and I think some of us need to. Hopefully can get mindful about the moment that we’re also being offered, which is an opportunity of connection. And when we want to turn it down, let’s turn it down with grace and compassion and not, um, and not disconnection, right?

Which is, uh, I’m from [00:31:00] Indiana. Oh, oh, you always grow up in Indiana. You know, um, you know what? I so appreciate your asking. Um, if you don’t mind, I’m doing X, Y, Z or whatever. I actually really, really appreciate wanting to reach out and spark a conversation. But right now, if you don’t mind, I don’t want to be rude.

I don’t want to, you know, be a jerk, but I really need to do X or I need to focus or I need to catch my whatever it is. But like, let’s decline the connection with grace and compassion too, and not be the jerk to be like, what? Yes. Yes. Yes, we need more of that. That’s grace. That’s acknowledgement. Um, and that’s just, that’s just transparency that that’s empathetic transparency to be like, Hey, man, I appreciate, you know, you, you’re putting this out.

out there for me. Look, I’m tied up with this. It minimizes the ambiguity because it’s easy for someone to feel rejected [00:32:00] in that moment and think, Oh, is it something I did? There’s nothing to do with maybe what you did and has everything to do with the deadline that person’s working with. You have an intent to engage.

They have an intent to accomplish their objective at hand. So yeah, with grace, accepting the offer and then declining the offer in a respectful way as you’re introducing. That’s beautiful. Yes, and that also tells that other person, it’s okay to be trying to connect. This one’s not the right time, but keep going.

Keep doing it. Yes. Yes. You know, okay. So, um, my, uh, you know, uh, I have a team member, Buzzy and Buzzy and I always hanging around and him and I just like, sometimes we’re just even talking over one another. We’re just so excited about the conversation. I find that it’s been hard for me to hear and to [00:33:00] listen, and those are two different things.

And what tips would you offer to, you know, buzz and myself and all those out there that when we’re in the conversation to be able to stay. In the moment, staying curious without jumping to it, because I’m just so excited to speak on what you said. I’m not even listening anymore because I’m just waiting for my turn to talk.

Yeah, this is such a valuable point because I think it’s so relatable. The excitement and pure intent inadvertently becomes a barrier. So the note we started off on. Is staying curious longer, even if they’re giving you something that you want to jump in on asking those questions [00:34:00] that reveals your excitement.

So if we’re giving the context of, okay, Judd, you’re building this podcast. Tell me about your process of the podcast. And it’s like in real life. In this hypothetical example, I’ve, you know, I have this rich context of being an interviewer talking about connection, but just leaning in. Tell me about the podcast.

You know, what’s lit you up? What’s been the most memorable nugget so far? How do you approach these interviews? What’s your favorite question to ask? How do you navigate follow up questions and create this sense of excitement through your curiosity? So the spotlight is in one place. We’ve slowed this down.

Where we still have a healthy back and forth, which I think is important in any conversation to, you know, maintain, uh, attention and engagement, but almost driven the sense of curiosity were from asking all of these specific questions about this niche you are in. We’ll get to a point where you could be like, dude, how do you know all of this about interviewing?[00:35:00]

And then it flips and then there’s my opportunity to serve. I think it’s almost Um the age old adage of slowing down to speed up in our conversations We’re eager. We want to make things happen so fast But if we just slow down and let it breathe Think about the moment being okay with I believe a productive silence And you said something that’s really meaningful or you’ve asked a question that’s really meaningful and then letting it sit and not even jumping in.

You’re like that person is reflecting on that question. You just asked them. And if you or I, as interviewers jump into quick, we almost killed a moment from this beautiful creativity that was just processing from that person. So I think that maybe a starting point is a quick, a quick tip of getting comfortable with productive silence and just slowing it down.

And making that an intent and a [00:36:00] habit. Uh, it’s a beautiful thing as an interviewer because deep thought, deep reflection will really start to pour out. And then they’ll know this person’s really listening to me. They’re not rushing the process. I love that. Um, so you and I are having a conversation and I’m talking like this, right.

And we’re, we’re having this count and then, uh, you know, I’m here, you know, I’m talking, you know, how disruptive is this conversation? This device in human connection conversation. Well, the research on the idea of a smartphone, even being on the table at dinner and some of the research that’s in the book talks about the idea that you’ve impaired your ability to fully listen and absorb what somebody is sharing by 20%.

Just by having the phone on the table, even face down because you’re anticipating a ping, you’re anticipating something else to interfere with what is happening in front of you. And for the [00:37:00] other person seeing the device on the table, they have been told that they are either an equal priority to your phone or a lesser priority that if something comes there, you’re going to this as opposed to them.

So I think it is a big hindrance. Honestly, it’s one of my biggest pet peeves when I’m connecting with somebody and that phone is on the table. So the first thing I’ll ask is. Hey, is everything okay? Like if you’re a parent, I understand you may have priorities. There could be something going on. First, I want to diagnose, is there a sense of urgency of why this phone needs to be on the table?

Because the quick assumption could be like, why are you doing that? That’s a distraction. Meanwhile, somebody could have something, um, intense going on in their life and they need that. I want to respect that. If they don’t, uh, I’ll politely just say, let me just wait till you’re done with that. And then you know what?

We’ll jam. And then people will be like, Oh, okay. Sorry. You know, I didn’t even realize, Oh my God, I was doing this. Nobody wants to intentionally be rude to somebody else. I want to be respectful of their space first, but also keep our space accountable. So we can connect and remove [00:38:00] the distraction and letting them know, Hey, you know what?

If it’s a habit and it’s happening on the regular, it’s okay. letting them know, Hey, I love our conversations when we hang. And you know what really helps for, for me specifically is, you know, when our devices are away, like I’m so distracted from my device. One of the biggest things I’m trying to work at is getting better at being bored and not being distracted by my phone.

And it helps me when there’s like no phones on the table. Is this cool that, you know, we just do this and there’s no phones on the table and not putting the onus or responsibility or calling them out. It’s just calling each other up of, Hey, My my intention is I want to connect with you and doing it in a graceful way like you talk about the graceful permission and exit of the conversation.

I think it can be done the same way because the phones they do get in the way. What would you also have found in your studying and thought leadership of human connection, particularly in conversations are blockages to deepening the conversation or [00:39:00] the or the connection?

I think one of the biggest barriers of human connection is do I have permission? You brought up this word earlier, permission. I think this is such an important word in the connection process of, do I have permission? Is this a safe space to share? And if we’re looking at the context of work culture or even friendships on a personal level, how do you know if you have permission to go deeper and be vulnerable?

Will it be received? Will it be rejected? And I think there’s a big opportunity as leaders, as, as friends that care to just go first. Go first in the space and reveal something that may be raw about your struggle. If you have a deeper rapport, you could have deeper vulnerability. If you are the trusted person in the circle and you’ve got somebody new to the fold that might have anxiety about, do I fit in?

Do I belong here? Your demonstration of going first up, man, I remember what my struggle [00:40:00] was on the first day. First day of work and laughing about your failures. You have given that person permission that, Oh, I’m not alone on this. I can now share what I’m going through on this first day. But I think there’s important.

There’s a psychological term called the pratfall effect to convey credibility before vulnerability. Cause leaders say to me, Hey, when’s the best time to be vulnerable? I don’t want to appear weak. So I think if you were that leader or person thinking, well, I don’t want to be like appearing to just be a victim and just venting.

And what does it really accomplish? I think vulnerability is going to backfire for me. I think if we want to establish credibility before vulnerability. There is a difference between being vulnerable and declaring and sharing the struggle and weakness and openly articulating value added vulnerability to the point where we’re sharing, man, this was a big struggle for me, but you know what’s really helped?

I tapped into the mental health resources that worked at work. You know, I started talking to a specialist. I started talking to a [00:41:00] therapist that really helped me navigate and understand why I’m feeling this way. And I think these resources can help all of us. Boom. Immediately you’ve activated the opportunity of one relatability of, Oh, all right.

Jada Riaz, they’re not perfect. They’re talking about the struggles they got. I’ve got struggles too. And oh man, here’s what I can do about it. Because in any conversation, I think I want the other person on the other side thinking, one, I relate to that, but two, I can do that if there’s an idea or insight I want to share, I want to empower them in the conversations.

So, so good. It’s, it’s value added vulnerability that breeds vulnerability. Um, you know, I have found at least at, uh, you know, even my law firm, uh, that the leadership has changed when I’m giving my team permission [00:42:00] to speak, meaning I want them all to know that that means I’m inviting you to raise awareness to issues, surface problems, raise your hand.

If you have an idea, give us feedback, uh, you know, welcome input. All of those ideas, this concept of generating the real energy of your team by, by having them contribute, they need to feel safe, mutually respected, a sense of belonging. In order to do that. So you can, you can say it all you want, but you also have to create the environment to your point, that psychological safety for that team member to know that’s not just words.

They need to see the actions like in yours, the law field fascinates me. Because the stakes are high, [00:43:00] tensions could be high, emotions could be high. What have you found that’s worked well with how you give your teammates, maybe even your clients, permission to get personal? What have you seen, observed, or maybe even practiced that really helps you build connection with your teammates and clients?

Great question. With my team, I found that it’s through my own storytelling. Acknowledging that my best mistakes were those that I fell forward. That I didn’t learn from any of my growth, I learned from these mistakes, and give them examples to show how that’s true. I, I acknowledge that today, that what I would do in our office setting, was wrong.

Now would not be what I would have done what I did five or 10 years ago. And by acknowledging that I’m learning with it, with you, I, I started my own law firm in [00:44:00] 2012, it’s like having a baby. There’s no playbook. There’s a, I mean, there’s consultants and ID, but you’re learning on the go and you’re making mistakes.

And as long as you’re growing personally and professionally from that, I think that’s okay. And I needed my team to understand through buy in that I’m investing truthfully in you because you’re investing in my company. Thank you for, for, you know, for your help. And. I want now to look at how, uh, work can elevate their life.

I don’t like work life balance. Why is work first? I don’t like work integration. Why is work first? I truly show my team through my actions and those conversations that I am, I have flaws. That I make mistakes, that I can own them, uh, but I’m going to always [00:45:00] respect and hear you and see you and value you.

And I think that when I go at it in a way that my team realizes that I’m caring about what they’re saying, they’re gonna speak up. I think that, you know what that comes down to that question of does Judd care about me? Does Riaz care about what I’m going through? And if we can establish that and, and look in this era, people are going to listen to this and say, nah, man.

All right, Riaz, this is ideal. I don’t have time for connection. I’ve got so many more responsibilities. This sounds ideal, but this also sounds exhausting. And I fully appreciate that because in this era, Leaders are not just managing roles and responsibilities. Now they’re managing energy and emotion, and that is exhausting, which is why I’m a firm believer on the idea of self care, self preservation, because we’re so [00:46:00] quick to ask, Hey, Judd, how are you?

Good. Riaz, how are you? Good. Becomes a throwaway. But how do we prioritize with our teammates, with our clients as we talk about the agendas and all the things we need to get done, but Hey, how are you taking care of yourself? It’s work life connection. Not just balance, not just integration, but work life connection, because we’re the same person outside of work that we are, you know, at work.

We can’t just, I get why people will say, Hey, you can only bring so much of your authenticity to work. It’s a professional setting. Absolutely. But the core of who you are is the same person. So how do we identify that celebrate our differences and create the safe space of belonging so we can all win in a positive way, love that, you know?

And with that I’m going to ask you because wow, if I had to measure, you have probably sparked 1 billion positive conversations because you’ve taught hundreds of thousands of conversations that have led to unmeasurable. [00:47:00] A meaningful conversations and your, your impact is real. Your, your, your positive voice is landing at least with me.

I can tell you. And so brother, keep doing what you’re doing. I have a question for you. Thank you for saying that. That means a lot, Jed. How, um, how do you most authentically connect with yourself? Hmm. I have on a personal level, uh, enrolled the therapist in the past, uh, six months, and that is solo therapy.

That is couples therapy. Um, the older I get and the more responsibilities I have, I realized this is. Not something I do enough of pouring back into my cup, recharging my battery because I’m pouring out all this energy to support other people. And I’ve [00:48:00] found how I connect with myself is finding an expert and I’ve found a great therapist who has asked powerful questions to illuminate why I do the things that I do.

And what are the things that get in the way of my relationship with my wife, maybe my relationship with my friends and having honest conversations on a daily basis. One of the simple things that I’ll do are, what are three things I’m grateful for today? Simple exercise, but the neuroscience, you know, if you hear the idea of just simple gratitude, the neuroscience shows if you practice that for 21 days straight, it makes your mind more optimistic for six months.

So journaling simple things like that in gratitude are important. Having a trusted export expert and resource for me to hold space and navigate. All right, here’s how I was feeling this week. And I want to understand why having an expert asked the questions back to me because sometimes and. It’s, it’s like second nature for me, which is, [00:49:00] it’s so weird for me to be in podcasts because I’m so used to being the interviewer and I need to stop myself from asking questions as we engage that this is a different role for me as the, as the guest on the podcast and not to overset my boundary, but I found, um, journaling every day and having a, a, a A very effective therapist that will push me in productive ways to get out of my own way has helped immensely.

And I think culturally, my parents never went to therapy. I think everyone can benefit from that exercise and even mental health resources. I hope that stigma is removed because if you need space, if you need somebody, I find I’m recharged after that, I find I’m acknowledged and I’m taking notes in my. Um, therapy sessions to just work through, digest and think about what this all means.

And it’s valuable for the work of connection of how I can hold space for others as well and be more empathetic to their reality. You [00:50:00] are a beautiful human being. You are a beautiful man. You know, I love the vulnerability and truth in that. Um, and I love the fact that you can acknowledge that and say that, you know, I, I see my therapist every Tuesday and, you know, and she is a guide.

She is one of my sounding boards. She is a trusted source of information for me to, uh, Understand how am I feeling? Why am I feeling this? And always trying to just get better. And you know, and I want for anybody listening to that to know that, you know, What, what was the stigma for me is sounded like if I said I had a therapist that it must have been, I had problems, but I also realized that some of the, the, the time that I stuck with a therapist [00:51:00] longer or in therapy or in focusing on self care, that was the healthiest times I also were.

And so thank you for sharing that and putting that out there and letting the world know that that doesn’t mean unhealthy. In fact, if you’re not talking to someone or if you’re not getting help, or if you’re not even caring about self care, which is not selfish, what’s wrong with you? Yeah. I mean, uh, you articulate it in such a human way.

Uh, we’ve all got problems. Maybe we have a support circle that supports us in positive ways that can lift us up. Great. But maybe that support circle. And I think an important question to ask ourselves is who soothes you. And if you’re lucky enough to have a partner, amazing. If you’re lucky enough to have a child that you have a great bond with, okay.

A friend, a mentor. But if you can’t [00:52:00] answer that question, who soothes you, how can you go out there and find the resource to do that? Because we all need that at some level. And maybe that’s a therapist. Maybe that’s a coworker. Maybe that’s a friend. Um, find that. We need that to navigate the problems. And sometimes.

Our friends may not have the expertise we need to navigate and understand what’s going on in our lives. So find the expert in whatever capacity that looks like that can help you see things from a different lens or amplify and illuminate the blind spots and self discovery we need to know about because, I mean, self connection.

If we want to connect with anybody else, it starts with connecting with ourselves first. Riaz, my friend, I thank you for our connection. I thank you for being open to the conversation that I wanted to spark with you. I thank you for your intentionality in allowing that to be an experience in my life. Our, our start of our conversation, your ability to [00:53:00] help me and guide me to resources.

Here we are today and I can’t wait and look forward to the many, many, many future conversations you and I will have, my brother. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Hi, man. I appreciate all of your kind words. I appreciate the intention of what you’re creating here. I think it’s awesome. Uh, I’m happy to jam with you.

Thanks for getting the book and going through it and making this a really powerful conversation. So, uh, I appreciate this very much. I want to extend my deepest gratitude to you. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, please follow us on your favorite platform or share this episode with a friend. You can also follow me on Instagram at Judd Shaw Official.

A special thank you to personal injury law firm, Judd Shaw Injury Law, for their support in helping us bring this podcast to life. Remember friends, authenticity isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being real. It’s about embracing our vulnerabilities, celebrating our strengths, [00:54:00] and being real. Owning our stories.

Until next time.